Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving WJ players

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Atlantica

Just because your agent is "getting ahead of the story" by denying involvement does not mean there was no involvement. I am not accusing Makar or anyone else. All I am saying is you will never get to the final 8 through a process of elimination based upon agents "getting ahead of the story".

It wasn't just his agent. Makar has himself said he wasn't involved. And frankly, he was possibly not with that crowd at the bar, as a non CHLer.

https://firstsportz.com/nhl-news-cal...investigation/

EDIT: also IIRC the lawsuit specifically said the 8 were CHL.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Umm, no? He didn't say anything remotely close to that...

But youth hockey culture in Canada can be incredibly toxic and gross. Which isn't to say other sports (and other countries) don't have problems, too, but it's irrelevant.

I think it mostly comes from toxic parents and coaches, but I wonder how much of it has to do with the actual need to use locker-rooms so much more compared to most other youth sports.

Two separate points but both valid. We all know the toxic culture hockey parents create. Not one team, ever, has been able to avoid “those” parents. As for the locker room being used more then any other sport, this is 100% true. On top of all the dressing room time, there is also the bus time, even lower, younger levels of hockey are busing hours on a Saturday to play a single game.

Do other sports make the kids show up an hour to 1 1/2 hours early to go for a jog and then sit around till game time? Then 1/2 hour or more afterwards? The one nephews (Midget A) team had to “ban” showers and had 10 minutes to clear the room after games and practice because there was so much chaos in the room afterwards. Instead of trying to fix the issues and improving the environment, the parents all turned on the coach, and Lethbridge Minor Hockey for this decision, what a disgrace.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It wasn't just his agent. Makar has himself said he wasn't involved. And frankly, he was possibly not with that crowd at the bar, as a non CHLer.

https://firstsportz.com/nhl-news-cal...investigation/

EDIT: also IIRC the lawsuit specifically said the 8 were CHL.

I believe it said “up to 8 members of the WJC team”. It was an awards gala in Ontario in June. Makar did not travel to attend the gala. One would think that it’d be mostly OHL players off the team given the time and location. The question around Dube is that he would’ve attended because he was team captain.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Umm, no? He didn't say anything remotely close to that...

But youth hockey culture in Canada can be incredibly toxic and gross. Which isn't to say other sports (and other countries) don't have problems, too, but it's irrelevant.

I think it mostly comes from toxic parents and coaches, but I wonder how much of it has to do with the actual need to use locker-rooms so much more compared to most other youth sports.

I’d guess it has to do more with hockey being a high-status + violent + team sport. That cultivates certain attitudes and behaviours (entitlement, aggression, pack mentality) that you’re less likely to find, say, in cross-country running or badminton.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I believe it said “up to 8 members of the WJC team”. It was an awards gala in Ontario in June. Makar did not travel to attend the gala. One would think that it’d be mostly OHL players off the team given the time and location. The question around Dube is that he would’ve attended because he was team captain.

The lawsuit itself (according to the story - I haven't seen the document) sued HC, CHL and 8 John Does and specifically said they were CHL players including (but not limited to) WJC team members.

To me it excluded non-CHL players which would mean Makar and a couple others.

I believe something like 22 of 24 WJC team players attended the London Gala.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Two separate points but both valid. We all know the toxic culture hockey parents create. Not one team, ever, has been able to avoid “those” parents. As for the locker room being used more then any other sport, this is 100% true. On top of all the dressing room time, there is also the bus time, even lower, younger levels of hockey are busing hours on a Saturday to play a single game.

Do other sports make the kids show up an hour to 1 1/2 hours early to go for a jog and then sit around till game time? Then 1/2 hour or more afterwards? The one nephews (Midget A) team had to “ban” showers and had 10 minutes to clear the room after games and practice because there was so much chaos in the room afterwards. Instead of trying to fix the issues and improving the environment, the parents all turned on the coach, and Lethbridge Minor Hockey for this decision, what a disgrace.

This is simply wrong.

I volunteered as a coach for three years in minor hockey, without kids of my own, and for all three of those years the closest thing I had to an issue was one year, when one parent asked why we did not change positions at the end of the month as I said we would (Season was 5 months long, so I told the parents each kid would play each of the 5 skater positions for one month, in order to get a good feel for each position.) When I said I wanted to keep it for the last game of minor hockey week, he thought that made perfect sense and all was done.

That was the closest thing to an issue I had, as head coach, in three years, so it is not fair to say "every team has those parents".

[CliffFletcher]

The players in this incident came from teams across the country. Hard to conclude their attitudes are due to particular parents or coaches. It’s the culture of elite hockey.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The players in this incident came from teams across the country. Hard to conclude their attitudes are due to particular parents or coaches. It’s the culture of elite hockey.

Probably but it’s not certain they were from across the country versus all OHL

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Its because hockey players are infinitely more popular in Canada than soccer players at younger levels.

I don't think hockey in particular has anything to do with it beyond its a group of teenager boys/young men who have a lot of girls interesting in them. You hear very similar stories around college sports in the US where they are popular - football or even lacrosse.

If there was some junior soccer leagues in Canada that people cared about - I don't think the issues would be different unless the soccer league took more serious action around educating the players and had more serious consequences for their actions.

Team size and pre/post game rituals are a bit more similar with hockey/football/lacrosse than say soccer/basketball/baseball.

In the latter, you've typically got 10-12 kids who arrive, lace up on the sideline, play, and go home. Compared to the former where teams are bigger (more odds of 'bad apple' parents/kids and different group dynamics) with a lot more unstructured time pre/post game.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’d guess it has to do more with hockey being a high-status + violent + team sport. That cultivates certain attitudes and behaviours (entitlement, aggression, pack mentality) that you’re less likely to find, say, in cross-country running or badminton.

Plenty of issues in individual sports, too, but they tend to be more related to coaching.

[transplant99]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1547523145480998913

[Wolfman]

I'm sure it's been said in this thread before but, Dillon Dube was the captain of this team. Wonder what if any part he played in this? What will the repercussions be?

[Roof-Daddy]

Kyrou Thomas and Batherson as well as guys like Steel and Howden who are UFAs

Formenton, Bean

Might start to see some careers go down the drain soon

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Kyrou Thomas and Batherson as well as guys like Steel and Howden who are UFAs

Formenton, Bean

Might start to see some careers go down the drain soon

Well hopefully. I am a little worried that a simple sorry given under duress may be enough for the NHL to look the other way.

[Goriders]

Legal question.

I thought there was a NDA involved in the settlement. Can the victim testify in this case? Are there any implications to that?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Legal question.

I thought there was a NDA involved in the settlement. Can the victim testify in this case? Are there any implications to that?

Most NDAs have a clause that say if the person signing is forced to testify they haven’t breached the NDA. But the other side will go to court to try and use the NDA to prevent the testimony. If it’s important enough the court will weigh the pros and cons of it. The importance of the evidence in that case versus the policy of honouring NDAs in general.

They can also modify things like hold the session in camera and seal the transcripts. If the NDA is about reputation that solves it.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Most NDAs have a clause that say if the person signing is forced to testify they haven’t breached the NDA. But the other side will go to court to try and use the NDA to prevent the testimony. If it’s important enough the court will weigh the pros and cons of it. The importance of the evidence in that case versus the policy of honouring NDAs in general.

They can also modify things like hold the session in camera and seal the transcripts. If the NDA is about reputation that solves it.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Reggie Dunlop]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1548102144342904832

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I assume the Flames have used due diligence investigating this matter seeing they are employing Dube. Unless you are of the belief that this would not matter to the Flames you would have to assume that he was not directly involved as it would certainly be a bad look on the organization if they knew and did not act in any way.

How can you prove this when this applies to all other teams? No one has come forward. It has to be somebody. Others are all thinking the same as us.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

https://twitter.com/user/status/1548102144342904832

Kinda gross that they are coming down to the wire on this deadline for some reason


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reggie Dunlop]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1548164447172104192