Brad Treliving needs to go

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GKDarts

His stock is certainly not higher today than it was prior to the draft last week. That was the time to trade him, and not risk the Johnny catastrophe that was about to unfold.

Well…. That doesn’t make a lick of sense.

But yeah, Tkachuk should be moved before camp.

[GordonBlue]

Has a team ever had a player who finished top 3 in scoring that season, then lost them for nothing before the next season?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There was reporting he was only willing to go 3-4 years. He wanted the fast track to UFA. And what leverage do you say the Flames had? Threatening a trade?

Do you have the reporting?

Flames had only so much to sign Tkachuk and Mangipane so a bridge was their only option with both which both back fired.

But yes if a player says I'm only willing to sign 3-4 years, walking them to free agency, that should tell you all you need to know. They dont plan on being here long term. Just as Tkachuk doesn't need to accept a Flames offer they don't need to accept his. Get term or maximize the asset. Or just put yourself in this position, smart move.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Do you have the reporting?

Flames had only so much to sign Tkachuk and Mangipane so a bridge was their only option with both which both back fired.

But yes if a player says I'm only willing to sign 3-4 years, walking them to free agency, that should tell you all you need to know. They dont plan on being here long term. Just as Tkachuk doesn't need to accept a Flames offer they don't need to accept his. Get term or maximize the asset. Or just put yourself in this position, smart move.

That was the theme of that summers RFA’s. That’s what all the good ones did.

[iloveicedhockey]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Has a team ever had a player who finished top 3 in scoring that season, then lost them for nothing before the next season?

I don't know but I don't think Columbus got anything for Panarin, that's probably the most similar in that regard. On the flipside, has a team thought to be a genuine challenger ever traded their top scorer at the deadline? Probably has happened but maybe before my time. I think both scenarios are uncommon.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Was always a BT fan. But do feel he misread and misplayed these negotiations very badly.

A firm deadline with clear intentions stated by JG should have been demanded prior to the draft. BT should have provided his max amount publicly and said sign by midnight prior to draft day or state publicly your intentions for all to know. If 2OA was in play. We really missed the boat there.

Now we are royally screwed. A borderline playoff team with a remaining core group ready to compete now. Yet little hope of standing a chance with any of the top tier teams in the league. And with an elite winger who has us over a barrel who may jump ship in a year.

What a nightmare! Time to retool/rebuild.

BT if you persist with the delusion we can win a Cup with what is left here and what is in pipeline. I am out. Your next moves will define your tenure as GM and whether I renew my season tickets beyond this year (stuck with them for this year unfortunately). There is nothing more dissatisfying than supporting something with no vision or future.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

I don't know but I don't think Columbus got anything for Panarin, that's probably the most similar in that regard. On the flipside, has a team thought to be a genuine challenger ever traded their top scorer at the deadline? Probably has happened but maybe before my time. I think both scenarios are uncommon.

I'd have to say likely not.
With the season the Flames were having, I'd think they'd have to have been both stupid and insane to trade Gaudreau at that point.

[GKDarts]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Hindsight. I don't think there is a single person on earth that knew how the ‘Johnny catastrophe’ would turn out, Gaudreau himself included. Did anyone think he would take a lower salary and a shorter term to move to Columbus?

There are a whole lot of people that could foresee an asset's value eroding while the retention risk was going up at the same time. Good gm's don't get there.

[Redlan]

I have no idea if I have been a silent minority or majority but I still support Treliving as the GM of the Flames.

A few of my thoughts:
The Flames will do fine in 2022/2023 - they should still challenge for the division.
Treliving will not allow a Gaudreau situation to occur again.
I am having issues finding an appropriate options for a new GM? Mellanby? Tulsky? Weeks? From within: Conroy? Pascal? Are these any better?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Redlan

I have no idea if I have been a silent minority or majority but I still support Treliving as the GM of the Flames.

A few of my thoughts:
The Flames will do fine in 2022/2023 - they should still challenge for the division.
Treliving will not allow a Gaudreau situation to occur again.
I am having issues finding an appropriate options for a new GM? Mellanby? Tulsky? Weeks? From within: Conroy? Pascal? Are these any better?

Are any of those options worse?

[Strange Brew]

Two days later and trying to do a post mortem on the Flames side of things, guess i have three main comments:

1) Flames obviously misread Gaudreau's interest in staying. Impossible to say whether they should have been able to figure this out. As an outsider, there did seem to be some signs he wasn't fully invested in staying in Calgary so were they only focused on seeing and hearing what they wanted to see and hear?

2) Lots of things they can't change about the team and where they play. But an honest assessment of the organizational culture should be done. Do players want to play here? Are you doing everything you can to attract talent given whatever limitations you have?

3) Assessment of talent. Why were the Flames offering so much more than anyone else? NJ didn't budge on their limits and let him sign elsewhere yet Flames were basically willing to give JG whatever he wanted. Not sure I buy that he was worth more to Calgary than any other team, his history was a sunk cost. I'm also concerned if the rumor is true they offered him the C. They really see him as a leader?

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Are any of those options worse?

So change for the sake of change?

But to answer your questions, I would say so...

[Iggy_12]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

Was always a BT fan. But do feel he misread and misplayed these negotiations very badly.

A firm deadline with clear intentions stated by JG should have been demanded prior to the draft. BT should have provided his max amount publicly and said sign by midnight prior to draft day or state publicly your intentions for all to know. If 2OA was in play. We really missed the boat there.

Now we are royally screwed. A borderline playoff team with a remaining core group ready to compete now. Yet little hope of standing a chance with any of the top tier teams in the league. And with an elite winger who has us over a barrel who may jump ship in a year.

What a nightmare! Time to retool/rebuild.

BT if you persist with the delusion we can win a Cup with what is left here and what is in pipeline. I am out. Your next moves will define your tenure as GM and whether I renew my season tickets beyond this year (stuck with them for this year unfortunately). There is nothing more dissatisfying than supporting something with no vision or future.

This is so on point, literally nailed the situation. Unfortunately i have NO hope that Treliving figures this out. We are gonna be in the same situation with Tkachuk in a year. Honestly trade is the only option, i dont even want him re-signed, until this franchise improves at center we are never gonna compete. The gap between the colorados and the lightnings was exponential WITH Johnny, now its just colossal. Im exhausted of the constant toiling in mediocricy that is the calgary flames franchise. Build this team the right way like the Ottawas and Detroits. If it takes a few crappy seasons so be it, i just want hope that one day we might actually be a legitimate cup contender.

This roster gives me zero hope, and we dont exactly have a pipeline that suggests we will be in the future

[Hack&Lube]

Given the multiple issues with this negotiation with Johnny, I think the only viable move that Tre could have made is to give Gaudreau a deadline.

If Murray Edwards was onboard, offer him 8x11M and say this offer expires on draft day. On draft day, we need to make forward looking decisions for the good of the organization and need to know if you are in or out. Giving Johnny to the 11th hour even after the draft day was too much - but I get the sense we were desperate to give him as much leeway as possible as a sign of our good faith. Just like Johnny does better under tougher coaches, we should have taken a Sutter-like approach to the negotiations.

[Britflamesfan]

Really he has to go. What is the plan going forward, we have signed three nobodies and Z which is the one trade I approve of. He looked like the deer caught in the headlights the other day, just like when DS was employed as coach. He has been given a good long time to get this team to the promised land and right now they are not close. I do not care about the regular season the playoffs showed me that we are not close to the ability of the top teams. Time to knock it all down and start again, we have some excellent pieces to garner picks and youngsters lets get moving and on with it.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Redlan

So change for the sake of change?

But to answer your questions, I would say so...

I would move Treliving because he fundamentally does not understand that in a market like Calgary’s you build through the draft. That seems painfully obvious to me. But Brad’s draft positions cummulatively are as follows (not including the trading down to get more picks, which diminished the value of the picks he used to trade down

First Round - 6 picks (standard would be 9, he traded away 3 of those picks)
Second Round - 8 picks (traded away 1)
Third Round - 7 picks (traded away 2)
Fourth Round - 7 picks (traded away 2)
Fifth Round - 7 picks (traded away 2)
Sixth Round - 9 picks
Seventh Round - 9 picks

Only rounds he is not a negative in are the final two rounds (picks that are more difficult to trade)

In 2023 he is down two picks (a third and a fifth). In 2024 he is down two picks (a fifth and a seventh).

So he has 9 years where he is down a total of 10 picks (including 3 first round picks) and he is down an additional 4 picks in the next two years. And he is the GM of a team that historically has had a hard time attracting UFAs. But large or small market, no team in the NHL burns picks like the Flames. It is a baffling strategy.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Two days later and trying to do a post mortem on the Flames side of things, guess i have three main comments:

1) Flames obviously misread Gaudreau's interest in staying. Impossible to say whether they should have been able to figure this out. As an outsider, there did seem to be some signs he wasn't fully invested in staying in Calgary so were they only focused on seeing and hearing what they wanted to see and hear?

2) Lots of things they can't change about the team and where they play. But an honest assessment of the organizational culture should be done. Do players want to play here? Are you doing everything you can to attract talent given whatever limitations you have?

3) Assessment of talent. Why were the Flames offering so much more than anyone else? NJ didn't budge on their limits and let him sign elsewhere yet Flames were basically willing to give JG whatever he wanted. Not sure I buy that he was worth more to Calgary than any other team, his history was a sunk cost. I'm also concerned if the rumor is true they offered him the C. They really see him as a leader?

I don't see where the Flames are so much more than anyone else. Regarding Gaudreau, they had to go first, so blind, but they offered $10.5M and NJ allegedly offered $10.2M. CBJ apparently had Gaudreau come to them, so they were in a pretty enviable situation, which explain their lower offer. One would have to assume that if they were pursuing Gaudreau, and had to negotiate, they likely end up higher than that.

Looking at another example yesterday, CBJ allegedly offered Zadorov $4M and the Flames offered $3.75M.

Seems like they are all in the same ballpark to me.

[Fan in Exile]

Treliving has dug himself a hole and there's a lot of work to do. The silence is maddening. I fear we'll be bridesmaids on Kadri and then he'll take a desperate gamble to try to fill the hole left by Johnny's departure.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Treliving has dug himself a hole and there's a lot of work to do. The silence is maddening. I fear we'll be bridesmaids on Kadri and then he'll take a desperate gamble to try to fill the hole left by Johnny's departure.

What makes you think they are even after Kadri?

Has their been reports?

I know they traded for him, but that was like 3 years ago.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Treliving has dug himself a hole and there's a lot of work to do. The silence is maddening. I fear we'll be bridesmaids on Kadri and then he'll take a desperate gamble to try to fill the hole left by Johnny's departure.

You fear that we miss out on Kadri? I hope to God we miss out on Kadri.