Seravalli: Gaudreau has informed the Flames he will not return

[chedder]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Finally watched the Tre presser. Got the feeling with Tre answer and body language that plan b is probably out the window and flames are now working on plan c

Plan b was likely to sign chucky long term. Now plan c is to play out the year and get virtually nothing for chucky at the trade deadline but only if we're out of the playoffs. If we're close this will be a repeat of what just happened.

It's really hard to have any excitement for this team right now.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You think ownership being kept up to date on what's happening and weighing in / approving or disproving big moves is unique to Calgary / Brad Treliving?

Moreover....is it being suggested that BT (or anyone really) should not do what is asked of them by their boss and the guy that signs your paycheck?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by chedder

Plan b was likely to sign chucky long term. Now plan c is to play out the year and get virtually nothing for chucky at the trade deadline but only if we're out of the playoffs. If we're close this will be a repeat of what just happened.

It's really hard to have any excitement for this team right now.

What makes you think that they have moved on from trying to sign MT long term?

They had to know what was happening with JG first to know where they were going with an MT extension.

[Vinny01]

Not sure if it is concrete but the Flames last offer was 8x10.5 and from what I have saw on Twitter the Devils will get Johnny on a 7x10.2

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You think ownership being kept up to date on what's happening and weighing in / approving or disproving big moves is unique to Calgary / Brad Treliving?

Not at all, I was agreeing with you. They ordered Brad to hire Sutter because it was a big move and they had seen what the previous hires had done. Brad did it. Brad kept them informed on Gaudreau I am certain. Whether he made it seem like Johnny was more likely to sign than he was is possible, but there is no way he did not keep them informed. When told to do things (like Sutter) and when he knows he has to keep them informed (Gaudreau) Brad knows what he needs to do. I suspect most GM’s do that as well, it is just that I suspect for most GM’s what they say will happen usually does. I doubt Brad keeping the owners informed was “hey, if we don’t sign him or trade him this off-season there is a 80% chance we lose him” which seemed to be the common perception in most of the hockey world. I suspect Brad framed it as a 50/50 proposition.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What makes you think that they have moved on from trying to sign MT long term?

They had to know what was happening with JG first to know where they were going with an MT extension.

The big sell here could be that this is Matthews’s team he gets the C and is the franchise player. It will cost the Flames likely 11-11.5 so not sure they want to do that or if Tkachuk even wants to stay. Losing one of our only truly elite talents for nothing should shift this team into a rebuild mode but it won’t.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It is bad for all Flames fans, especially when Brad gasses the 1st rounder at the deadline because we are only 4 points out of the wildcard position and a chance to play the Oilers in the first round.

Relax. It will be fine.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[ricardodw]

Gaudreau was in Calgary for 8 seasons. The Flames have pretty much been a cap team for most of those seasons.

They have been a mediocre team in the regular season and a bad playoff team.

Their 2 elite players (Gio/Gaudreau) never stepped up and had better playoffs than regular seasons.

Gaudreau finally had a good playoff this season but it was not $10M / year good. He was not close to the player he was in the regular season.

Him not signing a 10 x 8 contract with the Flames likely saved the Flames of another 8 years of the same.


Who ever signs Johnny will likely not do well as a team.


His impact on a team is the same as Tavares.

1 playoff series win with Tavares on the Islanders in 9 years and none with the Leafs in 4.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You think ownership being kept up to date on what's happening and weighing in / approving or disproving big moves is unique to Calgary / Brad Treliving?

Not unique, however I don't think all of the teams will have this dynamic

(i.e. with the Penguins, I bet Burke is the only approval required)

[PeteMoss]

I suspect the management will take a breath before doing anything.

They've made some big swings before - moving Dougie Hamilton, Ferland (and some other guy) that worked out.

They will need to decide if they want to build around Tkachuk or move him for a bounty. If you move Tkachuk - depending on the return - you decide what to do with the rest of the guys. Unlike the last rebuild where they really had only a few assets to trade - there are a bunch of guys you could unload on this team and get a bunch back for - Tkachuk, Lindholm, Tanev, Markstrom among the vets but you could also move Hanifan, Mangiapane, Andersson, Kylington if you really want to go scorched earth.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by flambers

Not unique, however I don't think all of the teams will have this dynamic

(i.e. with the Penguins, I bet Burke is the only approval required)

0% chance ownership isn't involved with every team at some level. Can't imagine Burke could just trade Crosby or whoever without the owners involvement.

[Monahammer]

So if Gaudreau goes to NJ, is that him admitting Dougue was right about the culture problem here? The culture problem JOHNNNY was largely a part of creating with his endless nights at cowboys?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What makes you think that they have moved on from trying to sign MT long term?



They had to know what was happening with JG first to know where they were going with an MT extension.

Just a thought. I'm guessing Tkachuk's camp won't do any real negotiating right now and if they don't accept a deal before training camp they'll just say we won't negotiate during the season.

Unfortunately, Tkachuk's contract status has again put the team on the weaker end of negotiations. He can string the team along.

Now the team has to put a hard deadline on making a deal and if no deal trade the player to try get any sort of return.

There's also the rumour of players wanting out now that Johnny's gone. If true that's really bad.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

So if Gaudreau goes to NJ, is that him admitting Dougue was right about the culture problem here? The culture problem JOHNNNY was largely a part of creating with his endless nights at cowboys?

Doubt that has anything to do with it.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

So if Gaudreau goes to NJ, is that him admitting Dougue was right about the culture problem here? The culture problem JOHNNNY was largely a part of creating with his endless nights at cowboys?

Why are we kicking him on the way out? Ya it sucks, but JG can want to leave and still be a decent person, teammate.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

0% chance ownership isn't involved with every team at some level. Can't imagine Burke could just trade Crosby or whoever without the owners involvement.

I would think Burke has a level of signoff that doesn't require ownership

[2macinnis2]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gaudreau was in Calgary for 8 seasons. The Flames have pretty much been a cap team for most of those seasons.

They have been a mediocre team in the regular season and a bad playoff team.

Their 2 elite players (Gio/Gaudreau) never stepped up and had better playoffs than regular seasons.

Gaudreau finally had a good playoff this season but it was not $10M / year good. He was not close to the player he was in the regular season.

Him not signing a 10 x 8 contract with the Flames likely saved the Flames of another 8 years of the same.


Who ever signs Johnny will likely not do well as a team.


His impact on a team is the same as Tavares.

1 playoff series win with Tavares on the Islanders in 9 years and none with the Leafs in 4.

To this point, I think there is way more to this story than we know. Treliving having an immediate presser and going out of his way to tell Flames fans they did everything they could to sign him is interesting. They knew there would be massive fallout from how this has played out amongst fans.

Did they do everything? Did they offer him, say, 8x12.5? That would be a 100 million dollar contract, that if the player is really that torn, may sway him from leaving to accept potentially 25% less.

In the end, we will never know. There’s only one person whose opinion on Gaudreau really mattered: Darryl Sutter.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Not at all, I was agreeing with you. They ordered Brad to hire Sutter because it was a big move and they had seen what the previous hires had done. Brad did it. Brad kept them informed on Gaudreau I am certain. Whether he made it seem like Johnny was more likely to sign than he was is possible, but there is no way he did not keep them informed. When told to do things (like Sutter) and when he knows he has to keep them informed (Gaudreau) Brad knows what he needs to do. I suspect most GM’s do that as well, it is just that I suspect for most GM’s what they say will happen usually does. I doubt Brad keeping the owners informed was “hey, if we don’t sign him or trade him this off-season there is a 80% chance we lose him” which seemed to be the common perception in most of the hockey world. I suspect Brad framed it as a 50/50 proposition.

It seems like perhaps it was a 50/50 proposition.
Based on how late the negotiations went and reportedly that Johnny was wrestling with it until the last minute.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I suspect the management will take a breath before doing anything.

They've made some big swings before - moving Dougie Hamilton, Ferland (and some other guy) that worked out.

They will need to decide if they want to build around Tkachuk or move him for a bounty. If you move Tkachuk - depending on the return - you decide what to do with the rest of the guys. Unlike the last rebuild where they really had only a few assets to trade - there are a bunch of guys you could unload on this team and get a bunch back for - Tkachuk, Lindholm, Tanev, Markstrom among the vets but you could also move Hanifan, Mangiapane, Andersson, Kylington if you really want to go scorched earth.

The flames don’t have time to breath if they do in fact have to trade Tkachuk. Teams are going to start spending their cap room in the next hour. I also think flames just lost any upper hand with Tkachuk in trades. If they put him out for trade every team knows that the flames can’t just keep him and have another Johnny scenario.

[Monahammer]

It just bugs me when guys are saying we got Johnny's best for 8 years. Nah, we got Johnny party for 6 years and Johnny adult for 2. Just sucks he leaves after he finally matures and takes the game seriously.