Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Icon]

I've been thinking for weeks that if the ask got too high the Flames should let him go. But I think the reality of losing him and what the roster/lineup looks like without him is sinking in.

Back up the truck, give him whatever, sort out shipping out Lucic, Monahan, Mangiapane, whatever to make it work.

I mostly just don't trust how a rebuild would go at this stage, doubt we'd firesale everyone so we'd be too good to land the lottery win, and I don't want to go back to being a playoff bubble team every season.

Pay the man and lets giv'r.

[bax]

Originally Posted by fleury

It was definitely a great season. Was he or Tkachuk able to plow through in the playoffs? How about previous seasons? Was he consistent to deserve the franchise player tab? I’d look beyond the great regular season he just had, and simply ask if he’s the guy to lead the team down the road. I’d opine, no. And I don’t think the Flames have that guy. I’d also go further and say I think they should tank and build through the draft to get that guy.

Gaudreau led the Flames in playoff scoring. It takes a full team to win a cup and a ton of luck.

The Flames have issues, but Gaudreau is not one of them. Pinning their playoff failures solely on him is a lazy argument.

[Duffalufagus]

You have to put the 10.5x8 on the table today. Which I suspect they have. That’s the highest money he’s going to get by a fair bit factoring in the 8th year. I don’t think this is about money at all and I am not at all optimistic. Our only chance is if the Flsmes haven’t formally put that number on the table, which I highly doubt.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Johnny would likely become the Flames all time scorer during this contract and potentially a hall of fame himself and potentially a cup champion.
He's entering his prime now and is arguably a top 5 forward in the NHL, Top 10 for sure.

Most importantly this organization doesn't have another player like that coming up or available to them.
You have to access the player vs his peers in the league but also how important he is to this team.

I agree. What I’m saying is the Flames don’t have that franchise altering guy to carry the team. I don’t think there’s any way of getting that guy aside from drafting high. You need a bigger body guy to work with Johnny and the team doesn’t have it. I think giving him $10M puts you in some cap trouble and meddles you in the middle from never truly tanking and getting a franchise player.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by bax

Gaudreau led the Flames in playoff scoring. It takes a full team to win a cup and a ton of luck.

The Flames have issues, but Gaudreau is not one of them. Pinning their playoff failures solely on him is a lazy argument.

Huh? It’s not solely on him by a mile. Dunno where that came from.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Do you ever add anything relevant to conversations, or just rely on your inane drive-bys to make yourself feel like you bring value to discourse? I've never seen one poster spend so much time fussing about others and be so oblivious to the topic in question.

I predicted you would say that, and… nope, no shock. I remain unshocked.

[bax]

Originally Posted by fleury

I agree. What I’m saying is the Flames don’t have that franchise altering guy to carry the team. I don’t think there’s any way of getting that guy aside from drafting high. You need a bigger body guy to work with Johnny and the team doesn’t have it. I think giving him $10M puts you in some cap trouble and meddles you in the middle from never truly tanking and getting a franchise player.

If you think the Flames are going “tank” if Johnny walks you are in for a surprise.

This team still has Sutter, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Markstrom, Tanev, Andersson, etc.

If Gaudreau walks they likely throw money at some second and third liners and run it back with a worse team. That will keep them in the middle.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by bax

If you think the Flames are going “tank” if Johnny walks you are in for a surprise.

This team still has Sutter, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Markstrom, Tanev, Andersson, etc.

If Gaudreau walks they likely throw money at some second and third liners and run it back with a worse team. That will keep them in the middle.

No doubt you’re right there. I think it’s scary if they do that, as likely as it is.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by fleury

I agree. What I’m saying is the Flames don’t have that franchise altering guy to carry the team. I don’t think there’s any way of getting that guy aside from drafting high. You need a bigger body guy to work with Johnny and the team doesn’t have it. I think giving him $10M puts you in some cap trouble and meddles you in the middle from never truly tanking and getting a franchise player.

I hear you, potentially true.
But unless the team is going scorched earth rebuild, we have no chance of going that route.

I'm happy for the team to build around Johnny/Tkachuk and think it's the best option we have.
I'd also be fine with a fire sale and loading up on draft picks for next year.

Absolutely not ok with anything in between.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by bax

If you think the Flames are going “tank” if Johnny walks you are in for a surprise.

This team still has Sutter, Lindholm, Tkachuk, Markstrom, Tanev, Andersson, etc.

If Gaudreau walks they likely throw money at some second and third liners and run it back with a worse team. That will keep them in the middle.

If Johnny walks they should trade Tkachuk. This off-season. Or we’ll be right back here next year. And his value is only going down as the season goes on. He’s a 70 point guy without Johnny.

[bax]

Originally Posted by fleury

Huh? It’s not solely on him by a mile. Dunno where that came from.

You literally said he couldn’t push through in playoffs and will his team to a Stanley Cup.

Gaudreau was a top 5 player in the NHL last season. If you don’t think you can build a winning team around that then you will be waiting around for a long time.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Icon

I've been thinking for weeks that if the ask got too high the Flames should let him go. But I think the reality of losing him and what the roster/lineup looks like without him is sinking in.

Back up the truck, give him whatever, sort out shipping out Lucic, Monahan, Mangiapane, whatever to make it work.

I mostly just don't trust how a rebuild would go at this stage, doubt we'd firesale everyone so we'd be too good to land the lottery win, and I don't want to go back to being a playoff bubble team every season.

Pay the man and lets giv'r.

I think too - we have to keep in mind the cap is going to balloon like mad once this covid 'payback' is over.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Seems my view of the NHL reality is much more in line with what is happening than yours. Everything I suggested a couple years ago is playing out in a very painful way. Now run along. Go do your antiquities-based Harry Potter fan fiction and continue hiding behind your moderator status.

I guess if you predict enough doom and gloom you're bound to get one right once in a while!

Maybe this is your time!

Make the most of it, and really enjoy yourself!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by fleury

I agree. What I’m saying is the Flames don’t have that franchise altering guy to carry the team. I don’t think there’s any way of getting that guy aside from drafting high. You need a bigger body guy to work with Johnny and the team doesn’t have it. I think giving him $10M puts you in some cap trouble and meddles you in the middle from never truly tanking and getting a franchise player.

Even then, the chances of drafting that guy are very slim, and a whole bunch of things completely out of the team's control need to happen. The team will get to the point of needing a rebuild, as all teams inevitably do. But I tend to think with all the pining for it to start now most posters do not fully grasp what that will look like, how long it will take, and how painful it will be. When even at the end of it there is no guarantee at all that the finished product would be any better than today's.


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The other one who may want out if things don't work for Gaudreau is Sutter. At least, if I was Sutter I wouldn't want to waste my time next season.

I don't believe Sutter is a quitter.

[Enoch Root]

I have always been in the camp that you can't overpay players, that if the ask is too much, you have to let them walk.

However, in this instance, I don't feel that way at all. NHL salaries have been pretty much stuck in a range for a while now, as the cap has been held down due to Covid. IMO, the cap is going to explode over the next few years, and we will soon see salaries jump to a new level that is going to make people uncomfortable for a while. That being the case, I am not overly concerned what the AAV is for Gaudreau (obviously, the lower the better) because regardless of where it comes in, I think it will look perfectly fine and reasonable in a very short number of years.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by bax

You literally said he couldn’t push through in playoffs and will his team to a Stanley Cup.

Gaudreau was a top 5 player in the NHL last season. If you don’t think you can build a winning team around that then you will be waiting around for a long time.

Yeah but what I was getting at is the McDavid/ Mackinnon/ Makar players will forge ahead and at times will singlehandedly push it. Guadreau isn’t quite that level. Of course it takes a full team to win but you need that franchise altering player who can push through. Gaudreau is physically limited and is a great number two.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have always been in the camp that you can't overpay players, that if the ask is too much, you have to let them walk.

However, in this instance, I don't feel that way at all. NHL salaries have been pretty much stuck in a range for a while now, as the cap has been held down due to Covid. IMO, the cap is going to explode over the next few years, and we will soon see salaries jump to a new level that is going to make people uncomfortable for a while. That being the case, I am not overly concerned what the AAV is for Gaudreau (obviously, the lower the better) because regardless of where it comes in, I think it will look perfectly fine and reasonable in a very short number of years.

Not until the league has been repaid almost 1B$ by the players still owed from the covid seasons.

That could take a while as the union tends to continue to kick that can down the road.

[bax]

Originally Posted by fleury

Yeah but what I was getting at is the McDavid/ Mackinnon/ Makar players will forge ahead and at times will singlehandedly push it. Guadreau isn’t quite that level. Of course it takes a full team to win but you need that franchise altering player who can push through. Gaudreau is physically limited and is a great number two.

Letting Gaudreau walk and hoping to land a player of that caliber is a hope and a prayer though. It’s not a plan.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Not until the league has been repaid almost 1B$ by the players still owed from the covid seasons.

That could take a while as the union tends to continue to kick that can down the road.

Believe its projected to be paid off by 24-25.