Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[McG]

Originally Posted by Toonage

If Gaudreau wants Philly and a deal could be made, you could do worse in a face saving move than paying Konecny and Provorov for a bit more than you would pay Johnny .

I was getting to this thought myself. Better than nothing. Literally.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I didn't assert that. I've not commented at all on whether they were or were not because I don't care to speculate on medical treatment of players.

I don't really care to speculate either. I haven't made any claims about how it was managed. My initial point was just that it is actually something reasonable to question. I was merely saying that this assertion is debatable.

It is idiotic to complain about that now, as if the Flames had some control over how his body would fare.

[MissTeeks]

Article out of Philly:

https://phillyhockeynow.com/2022/07/...tony-deangelo/

There are lots of ifs involved to enable Gaudreau to play for the Orange and Black.

Gaudreau “would (come to the Flyers), but they don’t have any money,” the source told Philly Hockey Now. “I don’t know what’s going to happen. He doesn’t know what’s going to happen. Calgary wants him back in the worst way, and they made him a really good offer. The Flyers haven’t reached out to his agent yet (that would technically be illegal), and I don’t know if they plan on doing anything.”

The source said Gaudreau, who once starred at Gloucester Catholic High, “wants to play on the East Coast if he can. But, again, he’s not going to close any door he has with (Calgary). We’ll see what happens.”

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I don't really care to speculate either. I haven't made any claims about how it was managed. My initial point was just that it is actually something reasonable to question. I was merely saying that this assertion is debatable.

I don't really think it is debatable, unless you want to have a debate about the medical care of NHL players more generally. At that point, this is not an issue with the Flames, but a league-wide systemic problem which affects every team. And I agree that that is a worthwhile discussion to have—I, for one, have long advocated for giving team physicians more power, and for more transparency and oversight in the process of how injuries are handled. My point here is that you cannot single out Sean Monahan as an exceptional case of negligence, which is certainly how your suppositions in previous posts have come across.

[McG]

I don’t think that anyone really knows what is happening than the very inner circle of both negotiating teams. That’s pretty obvious to me.

Talking heads? Looking for hits, traffic, angst, and triumphalism when one of them, somehow, is proven correct. Yes, they have more information likely than most of us, but is it inner circle?

We should all just post random outcomes in thread because it too will result in one or more of us being right with the same angst and triumphalism.

I think that it will be just under $11*8 or it has to be a sign and trade as toonage envisioned if it is Philly (flyers can’t get under the cap otherwise at $11 per). NJ? I’m not sure that they can’t just sign JG if they want.

Also, hello to 174 guests!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't really think it is debatable, unless you want to have a debate about the medical care of NHL players more generally. At that point, this is not an issue with the Flames, but a league-wide systemic problem which affects every team. And I agree that that is a worthwhile discussion to have—I, for one, have long advocated for giving team physicians more power, and for more transparency and oversight in the process of how injuries are handled. My point here is that you cannot single out Sean Monahan as an exceptional case of negligence, which is certainly how your suppositions in previous posts have come across.

All you can really say is that the Flames haven't ever been accused of medical negligence like a couple other teams (see Oilers, Edmonton). That doesn't rule it out, of course. But the fact of an injury doesn't mean negligence. Nor does playing through an injury because there are some that don't get worse because of it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

All you can really say is that the Flames haven't ever been accused of medical negligence like a couple other teams (see Oilers, Edmonton). That doesn't rule it out, of course. But the fact of an injury doesn't mean negligence. Nor does playing through an injury because there are some that don't get worse because of it.

Exactly. And I would add to this the fact that NHL players themselves have a tendency to exercise their own rights when it comes to playing through injuries. In a testosterone-fuelled, ultra-competitive culture like high-level hockey, it would come as no surprise at all for a player like Monahan to conceal injuries and to play through the pain, and against the advice of team doctors.

[Strange Brew]

Being forced into a rebuild not because you want to but because too many of your good players want out and then taking the same approach to the next rebuild as the one one that didn’t work out? That fits my definition of doomsday. Not something I’m hoping for whether 13 signs or not.

[Calgary4LIfe]

My favourite rumour in all of this is the one where Murray Edwards decided to personally handle the negotiations with his 10m deal (and I am not convinced that it was true).



Edwards: Come on Johnny, why don't you want to stay in Calgary?
Gaudreau: Must be the same reason you don't want to live there.



Hopefully they sign, but count me in as someone that hopes they sell if Gaudreau walks.



As for some players wanting to leave if Gaudreau doesn't re-sign - not sure if that is true or not. I can see it both ways. Why stay somewhere that they feel doesn't give them a chance to win, especially when you are playing for a coach that is so demanding? It is somewhat disheartening to work that hard knowing you don't have a realistic chance.


Don't misunderstand me here - I think Calgary will continue to be a decent team if Johnny leaves. It just makes it much more difficult to become a great team without him. Last time I checked, I don't see decent teams winning cups - I see great teams. From that standpoint, I can understand how some players MAY feel (if that rumour is even true).


For me, it is rather cut and dry. If Johnny walks, then this team should just rebuild. There just isn't enough high-end talent left to compete with teams like Colorado, Tampa, Vegas (if they get their goaltending sorted), etc.



I will still watch them and support them just like I did throughout the young guns era when everyone in this city knew what that era was - a farm team that is decent at drafting and developing players for good teams. There was zero chance of ever winning a cup during that era, but I still cheered. I did the same thing in the 2009-2015 seasons too. It is fine by me - this is something I watch for entertainment after all, and there are always intriguing stories within every season to keep me interested. I just hope that if Johnny does leave, this team just does a rebuild. Might not even take too long - a couple of seasons if they get lucky in the draft - as I think they have a good base of youth and prospects to build off of.


However, hopefully Gaudreau signs and the Flames find the wiggle room to re-sign Tkachuk long-term and find a better supporting cast as well this season to be able to compete with top-tier teams. That would be very interesting to me.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Article out of Philly:

https://phillyhockeynow.com/2022/07/...tony-deangelo/

Ya, the Philly cap situation is pretty bad. I'd be concerned if they were able to shed some dollars at the draft but they actually added money. Some contracts are borderline immovable under any circumstance.

If they move both konecny and provorov with no retention in the next 24 hours, all bets are off, but I just don't see how they"re a player in this. That roster is a disaster quite frankly.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I don't really care to speculate either. I haven't made any claims about how it was managed. My initial point was just that it is actually something reasonable to question. I was merely saying that this assertion is debatable.

Just to clarify the quote you posted isn't from me.

[jg13]

The saddest thing I could see happen in the next 36 hours is see Philly make a trade and clear cap space.

I fully expect that if it's not Philly, he will remain a Flame.

[Jiri Hrdina]

To me it's 50/50 between NJD and Calgary. The Devils check all the boxes.
East coast, near Johnny's home.
Cap space available
Some desire to open their contention window
Need wingers more than centres

They are the threat to me.

[Knut]

The thing to pitch to Johnny is that The Flames can give him the most money and it does not hold him back from ending up in Philly in a couple years. Its actually better fro him anways. Flames are the best chance to win now, but Philly could be the best chance 3 years from now.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't really think it is debatable, unless you want to have a debate about the medical care of NHL players more generally. At that point, this is not an issue with the Flames, but a league-wide systemic problem which affects every team. And I agree that that is a worthwhile discussion to have—I, for one, have long advocated for giving team physicians more power, and for more transparency and oversight in the process of how injuries are handled. My point here is that you cannot single out Sean Monahan as an exceptional case of negligence, which is certainly how your suppositions in previous posts have come across.

I'm merely saying that's it's debatable that the team had no control over how his body would fare. Teams have trainers and medical staff in order to have some control over how player's bodies fare. They obviously do not have total control, but they have some control, so my reply was to where you wrote "as if the Flames had some control over how his body would fare".

Basically, I agree with GioforPM. Whether or not his injury issues were handled appropriately is an unsettled open question that we don't have the necessary info to reach a conclusion on one way or the other.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If the Flames have offered Johnny $88 million and he hasn't signed, then he's probably gonzo.

I doubt he gets $88 million over 7 years ($12.5 million AAV) in free agency, but I guess we haven't seen a player put up 115 points and go straight to UFA in the cap era yet, so maybe I'm dead wrong.

Panarin signed for 11.7 million a year after a 87 point season.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

To me it's 50/50 between NJD and Calgary. The Devils check all the boxes.
East coast, near Johnny's home.
Cap space available
Some desire to open their contention window
Need wingers more than centres

They are the threat to me.

Agreed.

If the Flyers suddenly clear some cap space in the nest 24 hours or so then their threat level climbs significantly.

As already mentioned, Carolina is a dark horse as well, being out east and already having a fairly young team that just won their division with 116 points. In fact, they've won back to back division titles.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Knut

The thing to pitch to Johnny is that The Flames can give him the most money and it does not hold him back from ending up in Philly in a couple years. Its actually better fro him anways. Flames are the best chance to win now, but Philly could be the best chance 3 years from now.

I doubt that "winning now" is even a big factor in the decision. He is looking at signing a 7 or 8 year deal. Winning eventually might be a consideration, but right now I think it is about maximizing his income first, and living where he wants to second. If he doesn't get the income he wants, then the second point probably becomes the deciding factor.

[Muta]

All this west coast / east coast stuff is giving me late 90's hip hop vibes!

[Mars]

As long as they are still (rumoured to be) negotiating, I think there is still reason to be cautiously optimistic.

If Johnny had truly decided to leave already, why negotiate in bad faith?