2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[flambers]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

He's not a top 10 winger let alone a top 10 player.

This is confirmation bias through and through.

Stats (last season), he was fourth in terms of points for a winger

Tied for 5th for goals for a winger

I would think he would be quite close to being a top 10 winger

(remove wingers like Gaudreau, Huberdeau, Kaprizov, Ovechkin, Marner... top end guys)

Once you get close to #10 its get tougher...

He had a really good season

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Nit-pick, but Tkachuk probably isn't a top 10 winger:

ppg - gp - gpg over the last 4 years*

1.43 - 197 - 0.50 Nikita Kucherov
1.24 - 285 - 0.41 Patrick Kane
1.06 - 271 - 0.64 Alex Ovechkin
1.18 - 256 - 0.57 David Pastrnak
1.17 - 136 - 0.54 Kirill Kaprizov

1.21 - 286 - 0.36 Jonathan Huberdeau
1.27 - 265 - 0.37 Artemi Panarin
1.11 - 290 - 0.39 Johnny Gaudreau
1.21 - 268 - 0.36 Mitchell Marner
1.18 - 243 - 0.48 Mikko Rantanen

1.24 - 272 - 0.46 Brad Marchand**
0.97 - 234 - 0.36 Mark Stone**

0.98 - 288 - 0.50 Kyle Connor
0.99 - 287 - 0.40 Matthew Tkachuk
0.99 - 232 - 0.45 Gabriel Landeskog
1.03 - 253 - 0.49 Jake Guentzel
0.98 - 268 - 0.28 Blake Wheeler

0.98 - 128 - 0.45 Jason Robertson
0.94 - 185 - 0.40 Vladimir Tarasenko
0.91 - 235 - 0.44 Filip Forsberg
0.89 - 286 - 0.46 Alex DeBrincat

I believe Tkachuk is the only one on this list who has spent less than 2/4 seasons on the top line for his team.

He’s right there despite playing his first two seasons with Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, and Mangiapane. And most of his third season with Dube and Mangiapane on the other side of Lindholm or Backlund and Mangiapane.

So, in short, he’s probably an easy top 10 given his production under the circumstances, which doesn’t even factor in the defensive side of his game.

And those are just the facts. Though I’m sure some goofball calls it “confirmation bias” lol.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

You first

Okay I choose the price is right $1 approach:

1. Tkachuk.

That’s the list.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

You first

Advantage Murph.

[Poe969]

Most will agree, or should agree, he is a really good player and likely a top 10 winger. I don't want to trade him because he isn't good or because he's too good, I want to trade him because I don't think he will stay here long term, or he will cost waaaay too much, or he won't be as good without Johnny, or the team won't be as good without Johnny and they might as well start to accumulate assets.

There's lots of reasons to want to keep him and lots of reasons to want go trade him. I just want something to happen.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Murph

Name them.

ppg - gp - gpg over the last 4 years*

1.43 - 197 - 0.50 Nikita Kucherov
1.24 - 285 - 0.41 Patrick Kane
1.06 - 271 - 0.64 Alex Ovechkin
1.18 - 256 - 0.57 David Pastrnak
1.17 - 136 - 0.54 Kirill Kaprizov

1.21 - 286 - 0.36 Jonathan Huberdeau
1.27 - 265 - 0.37 Artemi Panarin
1.11 - 290 - 0.39 Johnny Gaudreau
1.21 - 268 - 0.36 Mitchell Marner
1.18 - 243 - 0.48 Mikko Rantanen

1.24 - 272 - 0.46 Brad Marchand**
0.97 - 234 - 0.36 Mark Stone**

0.98 - 288 - 0.50 Kyle Connor
0.99 - 287 - 0.40 Matthew Tkachuk
0.99 - 232 - 0.45 Gabriel Landeskog
1.03 - 253 - 0.49 Jake Guentzel
0.98 - 268 - 0.28 Blake Wheeler

0.98 - 128 - 0.45 Jason Robertson
0.94 - 185 - 0.40 Vladimir Tarasenko
0.91 - 235 - 0.44 Filip Forsberg
0.89 - 286 - 0.46 Alex DeBrincat


I think you can make an argument that he's 11th, but I'm not sure who you're deleting from that top 10?

Marchand probably won't get back to his previous form, but I wouldn't write off Stone. Landeskog showed in those playoffs that he gets very underrated. There are a lot of strong arguments for Kyle Connor, too.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I believe Tkachuk is the only one on this list who has spent less than 2/4 seasons on the top line for his team.

He’s right there despite playing his first two seasons with Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, and Mangiapane. And most of his third season with Dube and Mangiapane on the other side of Lindholm or Backlund and Mangiapane.

So, in short, he’s probably an easy top 10 given his production under the circumstances, which doesn’t even factor in the defensive side of his game.

And those are just the facts. Though I’m sure some goofball calls it “confirmation bias” lol.

Huberdeau = line 2 for the last two years.

Kyle Connor - lead WPG F's in TOI this year, but played mostly with Dubois and Svechnikov/Perfetti...and also killed penalties.


You have to make the same excuses/arguments in good faith across the board. Tkachuk gets a lot less TOI than most of these guys...but that's been true across three coaches, including the current HOFer...maybe it is actually just a fair criticism that you can't rely on Tkachuk to excel playing ~22 mins a night?


Tkachuk being Top 15 isn't an insult...sooner or later he'll hopefully improve his consistency (like the rest of the Flames) and climb the ranks as guys like Ovi and Kane inevitably decline. Pasta/KK/MM/Rantanen/Connor are all within a year or so of his age, though, and younger guys are always coming up.

[powderjunkie]

ppg - gp - gpg over the last 4 years - PLAYOFFS:

1.28 - 74 - 0.31 - Nikita Kucherov
1.28 - 57 - 0.40 - Mikko Rantanen
1.05 - 55 - 0.51 - Brad Marchand
1 - 9 - 0.22 - Patrick Kane
1 - 56 - 0.36 - Gabriel Landeskog
0.96 - 52 - 0.42 - David Pastrnak
0.92 - 26 - 0.42 - Alex Ovechkin
0.9 - 20 - 0.20 - Jonathan Huberdeau
0.88 - 33 - 0.36 - Artemi Panarin
0.85 - 13 - 0.69 - Kirill Kaprizov
0.81 - 27 - 0.26 - Johnny Gaudreau
0.8 - 46 - 0.39 - Mark Stone
0.77 - 26 - 0.15 - Mitchell Marner
0.72 - 18 - 0.33 - Kyle Connor
0.65 - 23 - 0.30 - Matthew Tkachuk

Of course this is cursory and widely variable sample sizes...but I'd love to hear some actual arguments about why Tkachuk is better than these guys (aside from he hasn't just had hip or back surgery)?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Safe to say he's top 15, maybe top 10. And of those players, he has a very unique agitator edge most don't.

With that said, I would likely have traded him for the #2 pick as we'll never get a superstar centre without drafting one and another 30 years without one would suck.
Particularly if he's unlikely to re sign, this would have been a prime opportunity missed.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

ppg - gp - gpg over the last 4 years - PLAYOFFS:

1.28 - 74 - 0.31 - Nikita Kucherov
1.28 - 57 - 0.40 - Mikko Rantanen
1.05 - 55 - 0.51 - Brad Marchand
1 - 9 - 0.22 - Patrick Kane
1 - 56 - 0.36 - Gabriel Landeskog
0.96 - 52 - 0.42 - David Pastrnak
0.92 - 26 - 0.42 - Alex Ovechkin
0.9 - 20 - 0.20 - Jonathan Huberdeau
0.88 - 33 - 0.36 - Artemi Panarin
0.85 - 13 - 0.69 - Kirill Kaprizov
0.81 - 27 - 0.26 - Johnny Gaudreau
0.8 - 46 - 0.39 - Mark Stone
0.77 - 26 - 0.15 - Mitchell Marner
0.72 - 18 - 0.33 - Kyle Connor
0.65 - 23 - 0.30 - Matthew Tkachuk

Of course this is cursory and widely variable sample sizes...but I'd love to hear some actual arguments about why Tkachuk is better than these guys (aside from he hasn't just had hip or back surgery)?

He’s the youngest on that list as well

[DJones]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Probably because you're talking about trading a top-10 winger in the league as being part of the "best solution".

That's some "we last won the Stanley Cup in 1967" management stratgey if I've ever seen it.

I just don't think we'd be competitive with two ten million dollar left wings.

If Gaudreau signed two weeks ago I would have loved to trade tkackuk for 2nd overall

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by DJones

I just don't think we'd be competitive with two ten million dollar left wings.

If Gaudreau signed two weeks ago I would have loved to trade tkackuk for 2nd overall

I wouldn't either, good thing our top left winger had 115 points and our top right winger had 104 points.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I wouldn't either, good thing our top left winger had 115 points and our top right winger had 104 points.

and now they'll make 7M more

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Huberdeau = line 2 for the last two years.

Kyle Connor - lead WPG F's in TOI this year, but played mostly with Dubois and Svechnikov/Perfetti...and also killed penalties.


You have to make the same excuses/arguments in good faith across the board. Tkachuk gets a lot less TOI than most of these guys...but that's been true across three coaches, including the current HOFer...maybe it is actually just a fair criticism that you can't rely on Tkachuk to excel playing ~22 mins a night?


Tkachuk being Top 15 isn't an insult...sooner or later he'll hopefully improve his consistency (like the rest of the Flames) and climb the ranks as guys like Ovi and Kane inevitably decline. Pasta/KK/MM/Rantanen/Connor are all within a year or so of his age, though, and younger guys are always coming up.

Huberdeau has been top 2 for forwards at EV TOI, if not THE top, every year of the last four. Whichever line he’s on is the top line.

And I’d argue he’s better than Kyle Connor anyway.

These aren’t excuses, they’re facts. You can’t compare something like linemates with something like some vague allusion to how coaches rely on him. If you’ve watched the games, you know exactly why he’s been on the second line. From coming up behind Gaudreau and clicking with Backlund, to the reliance on “pairs” within the forward group.

It’s not that it’s an insult for him to be top 15 (if anything, you seem to think it’s an insult to call him top 10, or why put up the fuss? Dom from the Athletic isn’t changing his mind cause you spit out one line of stars), it’s that there’s plenty of argument for him to be considered top 10.

You don’t see it, and that’s fine, but based on what you presented, that may be more due to your narrow view of a player than anything close to objective.

[Jason14h]

Top 10 or Top 15 Flames need more elite top end talent not less

I can’t think of a single team that traded elite young talent and got better .

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Top 10 or Top 15 Flames need more elite top end talent not less

I can’t think of a single team that traded elite young talent and got better .

Colorado got better by trading 26 year old Matt Duchene for an absolute haul. They got worse for a season and then became way better. It's one step back and three steps forward.

I agree - Flames need more elite top talent not less, but you only get elite young talent either: a. through the draft or b. getting lucky in a trade. By trading Tkachuk while his value is sky-high, you get a chance to potentially acquire an elite young player and a top pick to draft another elite young player, and increasing the number of elite young players we have, like you suggested.

I'm in the camp that says sign Johnny long term and try to trade Tkachuk for a huge return. That's how this team will take the next step. I agree with posters that say we won't be able to take the next step with two 10M wingers.

We need to knock a Tkachuk trade out of the park, not sign him to an 8x10M extension. The rumored 2OA was not enough imo, but if it was something like Holtz, Wright and Bratt, take that and run. If we can get Batherson, Pinto and Sanderson, take that and run. If we're offered Kyrou, Neighbours and Perunovich...think hard about it. Maybe ask for another pick.

Again, I believe that for this core to take a step forward, we need to maximize Tkachuk's trade value now.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DJones

and now they'll make 7M more

Lucic and change

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Most will agree, or should agree, he is a really good player and likely a top 10 winger. I don't want to trade him because he isn't good or because he's too good, I want to trade him because I don't think he will stay here long term, or he will cost waaaay too much, or he won't be as good without Johnny, or the team won't be as good without Johnny and they might as well start to accumulate assets.

There's lots of reasons to want to keep him and lots of reasons to want go trade him. I just want something to happen.

Sign Tkachuk long term or trade him. There better be no QO signing bs where Tkachuk bounces in a year. I would lose a lot of faith in Treliving if he did that.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Huberdeau has been top 2 for forwards at EV TOI, if not THE top, every year of the last four. Whichever line he’s on is the top line.

And I’d argue he’s better than Kyle Connor anyway.

These aren’t excuses, they’re facts. You can’t compare something like linemates with something like some vague allusion to how coaches rely on him. If you’ve watched the games, you know exactly why he’s been on the second line. From coming up behind Gaudreau and clicking with Backlund, to the reliance on “pairs” within the forward group.

It’s not that it’s an insult for him to be top 15 (if anything, you seem to think it’s an insult to call him top 10, or why put up the fuss? Dom from the Athletic isn’t changing his mind cause you spit out one line of stars), it’s that there’s plenty of argument for him to be considered top 10.

You don’t see it, and that’s fine, but based on what you presented, that may be more due to your narrow view of a player than anything close to objective.

That Huberdeau stat isn't actually true - at least not last year (JH was 4th on his team with 13:54, MT was 2nd on his with 14:57)...though any argument with Huberdeau is vs. Gaudreau, so I won't dive deeper.

All I'm asking for is who you'd delete off the list I provided. Nobody has taken that challenge...it's just more 'easily top-10'. Or 'he's the youngest'.

I'd just like to see Tkachuk repeat this level of performance before I anoint him...though I'm still not sure who he'll be able to bump out of that 10.

[GioforPM]

Gaudreau, Kucherov, Stone, Huberdeau, Marner, Panarin. That’s pretty much it. Draisaitl if he’s on wing.

Kane and Ovie are better at the moment, but I’m not signing them long term either. Marchand too I suppose.

[Harry Lime]

If it gets to the point of a QO, it's over. Tkachuk is 100% the kind of guy that would be way too interested in what the market would be. His brother signed as an RFA.

If it comes to it you make a St. Louis trade if you want to win now. Tarasenko is healthy, has an active trade request, and is a beast RW. Add one of Perunovich, Kryou. Then add 2023 1st.

If you want to win soon you trade with Ottawa. Plethora of young players plus 1st.

If you want to build for the future you trade with Jersey. Prospect heavy plus 1st.