I agree with this. This was probably the 4th or 5th best Calgary Flames season out of about 40 and with a little good fortune could have been higher. Even with 20/20 hindsight it was worth hanging on to Johnny to experience this season as a fan vs what the season would have looked like without Johnny and whatever return we got for a year or two of him.
Exactly. I feel like no one is acknowledging this. What would we have gotten for Johnny at the beginning of last year? He's got one season left on his contract, he just came off 2 down years and has not won anything of significance in this league yet. 1 year of an elite Johnny Gaudreau performance is probably more valuable than anything you could've gotten for him at that time.
So, for those who are saying Treliving bungled this, what would you have done?
Uhhh no, no it doesn't. He's simply told you his top priority - which is a completely obvious statement.
Just so everybody's clear, the only place we're spending our calories right now is trying to get both these players signed to long-term commitments. We'll continue down the path until told otherwise.
Only place they are expending energy. His words. If that ain't the case, that's bad messaging.
why would that be? the biggest money is still from Calgary.
I read this as Treliving using what public pressure he can legitimately use to get a response. He's basically saying they need to come back with a counter. Or a "no, please improve your offer".
You see this all the time from player agents. "We put our request in but haven't heard back". It's an attempt to put the other side into the bad guy role.
From a total value standpoint, but that's assuming Guadreau even wants to sign for 8 years. If I'm in his shoes I'm not going to sweat at all about the total value Calgary can offer when I'm talking about an 80.5M vs an 84M dollar contract. Infact, I'm probably thinking long and hard about a possible second UFA contract and what a 6 or 7 year deal at a higher AAV looks like as the league economics continue to explode.
Treliving has zero leverage in negotiations at this point and has certainly put no pressure on anyone as this drags on. Nobody is viewing Guadreau as a villian for this either - he's earned this. If you're in his financial situation having already made tens of millions of dollars (and about to blow that out of the water no matter what happens), are you going to let 3M dollars or so dictate where you decide to live and play for the next 7 or 8 years? Doubtful.
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 07-07-2022 at 11:29 AM.
Just so everybody's clear, the only place we're spending our calories right now is trying to get both these players signed to long-term commitments. We'll continue down the path until told otherwise.
Only place they are expending energy. His words. If that ain't the case, that's bad messaging.
How can you tell when Treliving is lying? When his lips are moving. Don’t take anything that he says to heart. Misdirection at its best.
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So, for those who are saying Treliving bungled this, what would you have done?
Traded Gaudreau for whatever you could have got. Rip the bandaid off and start looking forward rather than holding your breath and hoping they can get a deal done in the future. Would have prevented the fire sale of picks that could have helped with the rebuild that is probably being forced upon the team.
Just so everybody's clear, the only place we're spending our calories right now is trying to get both these players signed to long-term commitments. We'll continue down the path until told otherwise.
Only place they are expending energy. His words. If that ain't the case, that's bad messaging.
Also that they'll "pivot" if this becomes unfeasible.
So clearly there is no plan B. They are all in on signing these guys so it better happen.
If Gaudreau was dead set on leaving there is no reason for him to drag this on - he could just say "I'm going to test the market, as I want to play closer to my family". Nobody would really hate on him for making that call.
If he was set on going to a specific team he could tell them to try and work out a sign and trade to be able to get 8 years from that team which would benefit him and the Flames.
The only scenario where it makes sense to be non-committal and hold the Flames over the barrel is in the scenario where he wants to stay, but is going to drag this out to the last minute as leverage to try and get a bigger deal.
And that would be right in line with Lewis Gross high profile contract negotiations in the past.
Gaudreau's RFA contract - Gaudreau signed right before the regular season started which allowed him not to miss any games. Which at the time was rumored Gaudreau pushed for it since he didn't want to miss games.
Nylander's RFA contract - Nylander signed like 5 hours before the deadline on December 1st which allowed him to be eligible to play that season.
Honestly I'd be surprised if this doesn't come right down to the last day - that's the playbook that Gross uses as his leverage. We probably see a bunch of rumors about $11M contract offers from Philly or New Jersey leaked out right before Free Agency (just like with Landeskog) and then in the end Gaudreau will sign for like $10-$10.5M x 8 with Calgary and squeeze out an extra $500k to $1M per season.
Same goes for Tkachuk - signing now makes no sense. He has the most leverage once that Qualifying Offer is on the table and he can threaten to sign it and go to UFA.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 07-07-2022 at 11:44 AM.
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That statement also doesn't mean that they're not listening to offers for either, just that they're still focusing energy on resigning them. Honestly, it's a pretty empty statement designed to give the illusion of stability or status quo but clearly that's not the case.
Traded Gaudreau for whatever you could have got. Rip the bandaid off and start looking forward rather than holding your breath and hoping they can get a deal done in the future. Would have prevented the fire sale of picks that could have helped with the rebuild that is probably being forced upon the team.
Personally, I like the risk they took. One of the best seasons as a fan, one of the best individual seasons in Flames history. I doubt whatever bag of pucks you could’ve gotten for him would’ve made much of a difference. Definitely wouldn’t have been better than the year we got out of it IMO.
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The last three cup champions have had the exact same situation play out, with the player re-signing coming right down to the last minute.
Tampa Bay with Stamkos.
Colorado with Landeskog.
The Islanders did it with Tavares too, and actually lost him - and then made the 2nd round, Conference Finals, and Conference finals in three successive seasons.
I think there is an argument to be made that any chance of keeping Gaudreau is probably worth more than the couple of picks they could have got for him as a rental would have been.
The Flames are at a disadvantage to a Tampa and Colorado, who are arguably the two best managed (trades/cap) regular season teams in the last half dozen years. Tampa also has the best post season record with their two cups and a tax friendly environment. These are stacked teams where the loss of a Stmakos or Landeskog is less consequential than a Gaudreau is to Calgary. This also provides and incentive for a Landeskog and Stamkos to stay for a very likely cup run. The middling Flames don't have that pedigree....they're touch and go for playoffs (win a round or not) over the last 3 decades, with 2004 as an outlier. Their roster construction (better drafting lately)/trading record is average so, they don't have the luxury of incurring unecessary risk in losing prime assets for nothing.
The Islander comparison is more valid. I think most would agree that the Conference final Isles were overachieving/unexpected contenders. Just like the 2004 Flames. Mediocre teams have outlier seasons but by and large, they remain mediocre. When they piss away prime assets, they set back their franchises back years and need to rely on catching lightning in a bottle for unexpected deep playoff runs
Personally, I like the risk they took. One of the best seasons as a fan, one of the best individual seasons in Flames history. I doubt whatever bag of pucks you could’ve gotten for him would’ve made much of a difference. Definitely wouldn’t have been better than the year we got out of it IMO.
Agreed. Pretty fun season with lots of great moments. If Gaudreau leaves, he leaves on a high.
If the choice was doing a clunky retool starting last year and finishing mid-pack or keeping Gaudreau for a stellar season followed by a tougher rebuild starting the next couple years, I'm still taking the latter.
I think Johnny signs, but if he doesn't, you can't say he didn't give us plenty of reasons to tune in and enjoy the game again.
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Have to agree. This was the most enjoyable season I have spent as a flames fan in my entire lifetime. 2004 was the most enjoyable playoff run obviously, but that regular season didn't even hold a candle to this one. Nor did 2008.
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If Johnny is lost for zero return, then Treliving has bungled the situation from the point of view of being a reliable steward of team resources. He went all-in on this season. From the point of view of someone in it to win it, maybe it's less bungled than it was just a lost bet. The Flames this year were as good as they have been in a long time and were good enough to be considered cup contenders at the start of the playoffs. Maybe this year was the peak of what this core can offer and having the two stars on contract years squeezed that out of them. If that's the way Treliving saw things, I can at least appreciate him taking what he thought would be the best shot he's gonna get and going for it. It's not the approach of responsible stewardship, but sports sometimes requires a big play to go for the win when that's your only chance.
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Ugh. That is not a great statement. Pretty much admits he has no plan or willingness to explore all options.
He stated what the top priority is, and then said they're committed to that until it becomes clear they need to pivot - at which time they will pivot. He didn't say anything about whether they have a plan in place for that pivot or not.
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Personally, I like the risk they took. One of the best seasons as a fan, one of the best individual seasons in Flames history. I doubt whatever bag of pucks you could’ve gotten for him would’ve made much of a difference. Definitely wouldn’t have been better than the year we got out of it IMO.
Last season was fun. But I care more about building a team that will be a championship challenger for a number of seasons, not one and done. That was the exactly what was setup. Gaudreau and Tkachuk walk for nothing and it will be a distant memory before we see a repeat. You need to keep succession planning at the top of your to-do list as a manager in professional sports. You have to recoup assets where possible and bring in the quality players where possible. This has been a failing of this team for some time.
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I think that the Flames will wait as long as it takes to get Johnny signed. Number one priority.
Tkachuk is playing with fire. Today is one of the pinch points for a trade, and the second before free agency. Any doubts that he will sign and Tre would be stupid not to listen to offers.
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