Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Keep in mind these aren't actually the good times for many, many Albertans due to inflation and dealing with the Covid world, regardless of Oil booming. Most of us are paying $200-$400 more a month than usual on gas and goods and struggling with it.

I guess for the higher earners it's the same as any other boom, but yeah I'm not feeling that in my circles at all. Most are really cutting back and doing whatever they can to save money here and there.

Anyone who brings in a sales tax will do it early in their term so its hopefully forgotten about by the time an election happens.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Keep in mind these aren't actually the good times for many, many Albertans due to inflation and dealing with the Covid world, regardless of Oil booming. Most of us are paying $200-$400 more a month than usual on gas and goods and struggling with it.

I guess for the higher earners it's the same as any other boom, but yeah I'm not feeling that in my circles at all. Most are really cutting back and doing whatever they can to save money here and there.

I think that speaks to the issue Slava mentioned. The government has more money... great... where is it?

I'm pro-PST. I'm pro-pipeline. I'm all for us maximizing resource revenues and increasing taxation. But the money needs to make life better for the average person and it's not doing that. I'm fine if you want to charge people to go to Kananaskis to protect Kananaskis... but I'm not fine with that money just going out the window. There's lots of instances like that.

I don't want the government to have a surplus when it comes on the back of attempts to gut our healthcare and degrade our educational institutions. That's not a win to me. You got more money and you made life worse for the average person. Not the wealthy person. Not a large corporation. The average person. You failed.

We need a PST. But I have zero confidence the UCP would use that money in a way that actually benefits the average Albertan. They don't give a #### about any of us. The NDP did, even if they made mistakes. Even if someone disagreed with NDP policies, I see no logical way they could argue the NDP cared less about average people than the UCP.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You're not feeling a sales tax in your circle? Get outta town.

Just like any major life change, there is no perfect time, and there's no sign it's going to get easier in the long run even if we keep kicking this down the road.

If you have to make a hard decision, you do it when times are good, so you can mitigate the damage to people and province when times are bad.

A sales tax can help fund operations, while royalty revenue can help pay back debt and fund the Heritage fund. Then when #### really hits the fan again, operations are sustained, and the larger population base year-over-year are contributing to keeping the lights on in this province.

Maybe instead they can bump corporate taxes back up too. But my guess is the UCP will never consider communist jockeying like that.

What a hugely dickish response but not at all uncommon on CP these days, I guess. I was simply offering a perspective that it isn't feeling like a boom or good time to most people in this province as inflation of the effects of Covid.

It was just an aside to make mention of that it ins't that great right now for many, but I would actually be okay with a sales tax if that's what we need. Like holy ****, there was no ill will or negative feelings intended on my side and that's the sarcastic, childish opening line I get back?

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Slava

I agree with most of what you say here, but I'm curious about the bolded. I'm not sure how life has gotten more expensive for most people if you set aside inflation.

Insurance rates, tuition costs, user fees, removal of electricity cap, de-indexing tax brackets, de-indexing AISH to name a few. All of these increased before the current inflation issue

And it's not like taxes have gone down, most Albertans are paying more tax now since the deindexing of the personal amount (not that it's significant, but it exists).

So basically I am paying the same amount of taxes and now paying more out of pocket. Just from a how much money is in my wallet perspective, the NDP were better. Since that seems to be the consensus of how people vote, then it seems to reason that voting for the UCP is going against that logic.

And just to be clear I am not using this with any other point such as government debt burdens or social issues, just in solely looking at the one issue that seems to matter most when people complain about voting left wing - that it ends up costing more.

[Ozy_Flame]

Jayswin, When has anyone ever felt like putting in sales tax? Especially in Alberta?

And you're surprised there's some eye-rolling going on?

This is such a basic, non-threatening statement I'm truly taken aback you actually found that offensive. Christ, some of you are as sensitive as a baby's butt, but for conservatives I'm extra surprised.

[CliffFletcher]

We’re in strange economic times. Canadians are sitting on record savings built up during covid, but nobody under 55 has experienced this kind of inflation in their adult lives and it’s been a shock.

[iggy_oi]

https://www.alberta.ca/revenue.aspx

Corporate income tax revenue is estimated at $4 billion in 2022-23. Revenue from the corporate income tax rose dramatically in 2021-22, increasing $2.8 billion from Budget 2021 as energy prices strengthened and economic activity broadened, supporting growth in corporate profits. Alberta has the lowest corporate income tax rate in Canada, which is part of the government’s efforts to foster a competitive business environment and attract investment. As more companies expand their businesses in Alberta, revenue from the corporate income tax will continue to increase.

I’m not in favour of a PST but would be willing to compromise on implementing one if it was done in conjunction with bringing the corporate tax rate back up to 12% and earmarking half of the revenue towards public programs.

By their own estimates the UCP’s corporate tax cut is going to reduce our province’s corporate tax revenue by $2B this year. Someone else might who is more familiar with the data may be able to explain how much a PST of say 5% would raise but in any event if the goal is to create a more sustainable provincial taxation model then the corporate interests who make money off of the labour and resources of Albertans should also be expected to do their part.

[timun]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Insurance rates, tuition costs, user fees, removal of electricity cap, de-indexing tax brackets, de-indexing AISH to name a few. All of these increased before the current inflation issue

And it's not like taxes have gone down, most Albertans are paying more tax now since the deindexing of the personal amount (not that it's significant, but it exists).

Don't forget they increased the provincial share of property taxes; basically just an end run-around provincial tax increase that municipalities took the blame for, because it forced municipalities to increase property tax rates just to keep their own funding constant.

Oh, and on top of that the province cut police funding to the municipalities, so they had to raise property taxes to pick up that tax burden. Again, something the municipalities took the blame for even though it was the province clawing back funding that caused it.

[Delgar]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

https://www.alberta.ca/revenue.aspx

I’m not in favour of a PST but would be willing to compromise on implementing one if it was done in conjunction with bringing the corporate tax rate back up to 12% and earmarking half of the revenue towards public programs.

Interesting position, not something I'd expect based on how I read your posting history.

PST is a consumption tax, as is the GST. Alberta has skated around it because of other revenues. Now the oil revenue is coming back, and Alberta is going to see surpluses.

Should there be a PST? The lack of one does separate government revenue from how the other provinces operate (BC in my experience has too much on the ticker when people buy groceries, for example)

So are you saying, higher corporate tax and use that to forego PST? Have you done the math? I haven't.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The UCP really have dug their own grave. Even if you take the platforms out of the equation and voted just for the person running, I can imagine only a few backbenchers are worthy of a vote. The UCP has assembled such an unlikable roster of people. The entire caucus is downright nasty.

Unfortunately the Liberal party and the Alberta party are not serious contenders.

Although there are many NDP guys in this forum, and they dip into the 'talking point frenzy' now and again, the majority of people (like me) probably just really dislike the UCP. It's not just the premier, it's rotten to the core.

Bingo.

I don't really care for the NDP—I thought they did okay in their four-year term in government—but I detest the UCP. I had written this before in the since-closed "Thread 2.0": the NDP were incompetent and naïve (particularly 2015-2017), but the UCP are contemptuous and malicious. I honestly believe that, and there's nothing about the UCP's policies and government in the last three years that has me convinced otherwise.

I disagreed with many NDP policies, or the way in which their policies were implemented. E.g. the coal-fired power plant PPAs was a massive mistake. However, I think the underlying reason was sound: let's get rid of these nasty, highly polluting coal power stations. They're bad for our environment. The light bulb installation program funded by the carbon tax revenues is another good example. I thought the implementation was a little dumb (in that one had to have a prequalified contractor come in and screw some LED light bulbs in), but the underlying reason was good: let's get older inefficient incandescent bulbs replaced with new LED lamps that are an order of magnitude more efficient. I thought funding it through the carbon tax was great.

Whereas with UCP policy I see malice and contempt underlying many of their decisions. When all the educators in the province are telling the government their new curriculum is crap, why continue to push it? Why privatize provincial park land? Why even entertain coal mining at Grassy Mountain, let alone push it? Why hand control of the teachers' pension plan over the AIMCo when they didn't want it? Why cut AISH funding (and later reinstate it and act like you're heroes and deserve a pat on the back)? It was all seemingly done in bad faith.

The message I get from the UCP is "if you're not one of our cronies you're worthless scum to us", and their policy decisions are driven more by wrongful intentions (e.g. ####ing around with the school curricula and pushing charter schools and 'voucher' programs) than anything. I truly, honestly believe the UCP do not have consideration for anyone else's best interests. From where I'm standing they actively want to wreck Alberta more than help. That's why I absolutely cannot stand them.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Interesting position, not something I'd expect based on how I read your posting history.

PST is a consumption tax, as is the GST. Alberta has skated around it because of other revenues. Now the oil revenue is coming back, and Alberta is going to see surpluses.

Should there be a PST? The lack of one does separate government revenue from how the other provinces operate (BC in my experience has too much on the ticker when people buy groceries, for example)

So are you saying, higher corporate tax and use that to forego PST? Have you done the math? I haven't.

I’m saying that if we are going to consider implementing a PST because we need to increase revenues and the main reasoning is because other provinces have done so, then we can’t ignore the fact that our corporate tax rates also aren’t in line with the other provinces. A 10-12% corporate tax rate isn’t and never was an unreasonable level of taxation by any stretch of the imagination. But implementing a PST to essentially make up the shortfall from our current inexplicably low corporate tax rate makes no sense.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I’m saying that if we are going to consider implementing a PST because we need to increase revenues and the main reasoning is because other provinces have done so, then we can’t ignore the fact that our corporate tax rates also aren’t in line with the other provinces. A 10-12% corporate tax rate isn’t and never was an unreasonable level of taxation by any stretch of the imagination. But implementing a PST to essentially make up the shortfall from our current inexplicably low corporate tax rate makes no sense.

100%. The corporate tax rate is unnecessarily low.

[Fuzz]

Some loser - "Islam is not a peaceful religion misused by radicals” but is “one of the most militaristic religions known to man".

UCP - "Ya, this guy will be perfect for the chief of the Alberta Human Rights Commission. Book it."

https://albertapolitics.ca/2022/07/n...de-immediately

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Some loser - "Islam is not a peaceful religion misused by radicals” but is “one of the most militaristic religions known to man".

UCP - "Ya, this guy will be perfect for the chief of the Alberta Human Rights Commission. Book it."

https://albertapolitics.ca/2022/07/n...de-immediately

Those comments are pretty old and I think Mr. May said the right things after they surfaced:

“I wish to state clearly that I do not believe or accept the characterization of Islam as a militant religion or movement, especially in light of important recent and diverse scholarship that is working to overcome misconceptions regarding Muslim history and philosophy,” he wrote. “I commit to continuing my personal education about Islam, and all faiths, in my role as Chief.”

But, yeah, for this particular position, its disqualifying. I don't understand why the Alberta government is sitting on this for so long.

[Fuzz]

But why even consider someone like that? Is he the last person in Alberta? "We looked at all the options, and ya, this was the best of them" doesn't really inspire confidence.

[Ozy_Flame]

I mean, the current Minister of Finance has been linked to sexual harassment claims, poaching, uttering threats, killing horses, student union president bylaw violations, obstruction of justice, ethics complaints around fundraising, and being a ######bag in the legislature multiple times. And that's just one of them.

This is the same party that might very well elect the "smoking is good for you" candidate as their leader.

Transgressions, weirdness and stupidity, the UCP has no shortage of.

[iggy_oi]

It’s almost as if the party is made up of only bad people

[aaronck]

LOL, this is our minister of culture and women's status of women soooo...Also obviously minister of bowl cuts

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It’s almost as if the party is made up of only bad people

Careful or you might cause a UCP voter to come in and give us a low rent “I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!” speech. They couldn’t have possibly known a party dealing with corruption, fraud, and mounting “skeleton in the closet” issues before it even had a leader would be terrible. Who among us could have, really?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Careful or you might cause a UCP voter to come in and give us a low rent “I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!” speech. They couldn’t have possibly known a party dealing with corruption, fraud, and mounting “skeleton in the closet” issues before it even had a leader would be terrible. Who among us could have, really?

That's part of the playbook.

Dismiss criticisms as "oh well that person of course would have an issue with this politician/party/pundit" for a couple years, and then turn around and claim that absolutely no one could have seen it coming when they #### up so bad no one can ignore it.