06-28-2022, 10:23 PM
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#441
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
And honestly if the Flames were in Colorado's spot this fan base would have been calling for them to tear it down after the 16-17 season and trade everyone. It had been 8 years since drafting Duchene, 4 years with Mackinnon and they were last in the league again. How much did we make fun of the Oilers for that when they were drafting early again after already having Hall, RNH, and Yakupov?
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And good thing they did tear it down?
They traded Duchene.
They traded Soderberg.
They traded Barrie.
They traded Iginla.
They traded Holden.
They traded Tanguay.
They traded McLeod.
They traded Zadorov.
They didn't re-sign any UFAs except Landeskog.
The 2015-2016 only has 3 regular players still with the team, Erik Johnson, Nathan MacKinnon and Gabriel Landeskog. They completely gutted the team outside the absolute core during that 2014-2018 era making two huge moves in moving out O'Reilly in 2015 and Duchene behind him in 2017. The Duchene trade especially being for futures (including Byram and Girard) while they could have received Turris instead was also an indication that the team was rebuilding instead of looking to compete. In doing so they were okay with finishing last in the league and drafted some kid from Calgary.
Why are we pretending like these teams didn't rebuild?
Last edited by OptimalTates; 06-28-2022 at 10:27 PM.
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06-29-2022, 01:46 AM
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#442
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone
How many teams have won Stanley Cups in recent years without top-4 draft picks on their roster?
In the cap-era, the odds are overwhelmingly against you if you don't have top-4 draft picks on your roster.
The fact we got Tkachuk at 6 would be a massive win (and Gaudreau at 104) if they were being added to a team that had a 1st and a 3rd overall already on their roster. That's how you end up a Championship quality team.
The fact that the Flames have been able to build the roster they've built without those top-4 picks is actually pretty damn impressive and why I think Treliving should be the GM of a proper Calgary Flames rebuild. I think he's a very good GM, but he just can't overcome the lack of those top of the draft players.
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The "cap era" is nearly two decades...cup winners have them because basically every team has them.
Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, and Markstom are all top 4 pick talents
Gaudreau was one of the 5 best players in the entire NHL this season...probably top 3
Markstom the 2nd best goalie until round two
Lindholm the 2nd best 2 way center
Tkachuk outscored most of the league too
They have the top end talent, need to build around it and hope the goalie doesn't have his worst week of the season during the playoffs.
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Last edited by dino7c; 06-29-2022 at 01:51 AM.
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06-29-2022, 03:05 AM
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#443
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone
How many teams have won Stanley Cups in recent years without top-4 draft picks on their roster?
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How many teams don't have at least one top-4 pick on their roster? This year, only 3 teams -- St. Louis, San Jose, and Vancouver -- didn't have a top-4 pick on their roster (Minnesota also didn't until they acquired Fleury).
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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06-29-2022, 07:12 AM
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#444
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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06-29-2022, 07:21 AM
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#445
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
St.Louis - 11 years after Pietrangelo pick
Washington - 13 years after Ovechkin pick
Tampa - 12 years after Stamkos pick, 11 years after Hedman
Colorado - 13 years since Duchene pick, 9 years since Mackinnon pick
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Yes and they aren't really coincidences. Your best bet is to win when you have elite players on ELCs (Malkin, Toews, Kane) or at the tail end of RFA "second" contracts of elite players which usually happen a decade into their careers. Your best bet in drafting those players is with top picks. Sure you can find Kucherov and Gaudreau later but they come around so infrequent comparatively and are usually needed as the final pieces to take a team over the edge, not as easy when you're building around "solely" them.
St. Louis, 11 years after the Pietrangelo pick so he was making 6.5M despite playing like a 10M+ player (would sign for 8.8M shortly after with a retirement contract that brings him to 37).
Washington, 12 years after the Backstrom pick so he was making 6.7M despite playing like a 10M+ player (would sign for 9.2M shortly after with a retirement contract that brings him to 37).
Chicago, 8 and 9 years after Kane and Toews pick so they were making 6.3M despite playing like a 10M+ players (would sign for 10.5M+ before winning the Cup).
Los Angeles, 6 years after Doughty pick so he was making 7M despite playing like a 10M+ player (would sign for 11M a couple years later).
Colorado, 9 years after MacKinnon pick so he was making 6.3M despite playing like a 10M+ player.
The Flames shot was this past season when the top line was making 20M despite being a 30M+ line. But that won't be the case in the future.
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06-29-2022, 08:17 AM
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#446
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Looks like some Twitter speculation the Rangers are after Dubois
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06-29-2022, 08:28 AM
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#447
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
Looks like some Twitter speculation the Rangers are after Dubois
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Makes sense seeing they are letting Strome go to free agency. Jets have made out well dealing with the Rangers with the returns for Copp and Trouba.
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06-29-2022, 08:32 AM
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#448
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
Makes sense seeing they are letting Strome go to free agency. Jets have made out well dealing with the Rangers with the returns for Copp and Trouba.
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I am sure they could secure Kakko+ for Dubois as well so they might be really good trading partners.
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06-29-2022, 08:34 AM
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#449
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Franchise Player
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NYR has some serious cap issues coming though, even if they let the likes of Strome go. Not sure how they fit in PLD long-term.
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06-29-2022, 08:37 AM
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#450
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In the Sin Bin
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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If the Rangers like Dubois, I wonder if they could also be interested in Tkachuk if he's put out to market. They obviously think they can do some cap work long term.
Lafreniere + for Tkachuk would ease my sorrows.
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06-29-2022, 09:15 AM
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#451
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahammer
If the Rangers like Dubois, I wonder if they could also be interested in Tkachuk if he's put out to market. They obviously think they can do some cap work long term.
Lafreniere + for Tkachuk would ease my sorrows.
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Would rather trade with Jersey or Ottawa. They have some appealing pieces.
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06-29-2022, 09:15 AM
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#452
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
Looks like some Twitter speculation the Rangers are after Dubois
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Dubois would sure be a good replacement for Strome for the Rags.
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06-29-2022, 09:22 AM
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#453
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Taking a while to get to 5000
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NYR & WPG seems to be good trading buddies too. This might have legs.
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06-29-2022, 09:57 AM
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#454
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Park Hyatt Tokyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
You think Darryl is going to throw in the cowboy hat because a single player leaves? Not his style.
There is ZERO signs that this team will re-build. Those calling for it are banging their head against a wall.
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Agreed. Those people can go cheer for the Oilers if they like re-builds.
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06-29-2022, 10:12 AM
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#455
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
NYR has some serious cap issues coming though, even if they let the likes of Strome go. Not sure how they fit in PLD long-term.
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I disagree with serious cap issues. They aren't swimming in cap, but assuming they move on from Strome and Kakko goes the other way, they have enough room to sign PLD for this year and by next year when Lafrenière's contract is up they clear nearly 4M in dead cap, plus the likely ~1-2M cap increase, and his current salary of ~1M, so they don't need to worry there, just have to make fit Miller in which might mean not re-signing Reaves and instead taking on a true league minimum player as his replacement.
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06-29-2022, 10:22 AM
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#457
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
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Go Flyers...no cap space for Johnny 
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06-29-2022, 11:17 AM
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#458
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
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Oilers would just ask some more players to retire.
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06-29-2022, 11:22 AM
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#459
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988
Oilers would just ask some more players to retire.
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Would anyone be surprised if they pitched retirement to Kassian?
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06-29-2022, 11:31 AM
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#460
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComixZone
The New York Rangers announced a rebuild in February of 2018.
Their roster was comprised of:
Head Coach: Alain Vigneault
Mats Zuccarello (30 years old)
Mika Zibanejad (24 years old)
Kevin Hayes (25 years old)
Pavel Buchnevich (22 years old)
JT Miller (24 years old)
Chris Krieder (26 years old)
Rick Nash (33 years old)
Ryan McDonagh (28 years old)
Brady Skjei (23 years old)
Kevin Shattenkirk (28 years old)
Neal Pink (22 years old)
Tony DeAngelo (21 years old)
Henrik Lundqvist (35 years old, still posting a .915)
So it's not unheard of. That team failed to come together though and they decided to end the shuffling around in mediocrity that year. In that season the Rangers sold Rick Nash (1st, 7th, Spooner, Lindgren, Beleskey), Michael Grabner (2nd, Rykov), Nick Holden (3rd), Ryan McDonagh and J.T. Miller (1st, 2nd, Howden, Hajek, Namestnikov). Then in the following season they dealt Ryan Spooner to EDM for Ryan Strome (lol @ Edmonton), Mats Zuccarello (2nd, 3rd), Adam McQuaid (4th, 7th), Kevin Hayes (Lemieux, 1st, 4th) and then in the Summer of 2019 they started to build the team back up by acquiring Jacob Trouba and Adam Fox.
...best to rebuild before the clock strikes midnight. Goes to show how quick things can change direction. Toronto did it in a similar way. We'd likely struggle because we probably won't be as lucky in the draft nor would we have the big ticket free agent signings to help (Panarin, Tavares), although a lottery pick or two does help draw talent in.
I still don't think the Flames will do this if Johnny walks...but if Tkachuk won't sign long-term ontop of Johnny leaving? Stick a fork in it.
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They were also a playoff team that won the draft lottery which is a pretty unique scenario...not to mention they are in one of the most disirable markets in the NHL.
There best dman was gifted to them based in geography
Smallish market teams rebuilds seem to go a lot different
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