Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...e-invoked.html

He didn't say that they asked him. He said they acted on the advice of. They all agreed that they did that, read the quotes I bolded in my previous post.

They only denied directly asking for the government to invoke it. They didn't, but he also didn't say they did.

This might as well be asking "Yes or no did you stop beating your wife?" type politic move.

[OptimalTates]

So nothing CaptainCrunch? Again, even if he did say they asked, which appears he didn't, it would be a nothing-burger to me but that fact that even your semantics argument appears to be false is pretty comical. Asking to invoke the Emergencies Act or asking for the powers that come with the Emergencies Act but not specifically asking for the act to be invoked, who cares? It's like if I ordered a Big Mac™, french fries and coke and then when someone says I ordered a Big Mac™ meal, PP says they are a liar and need to resign lol.

If nothing else, let me again bring up the quote from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service's director during his appearance in front of the committee:

Indeed, CSIS is but one among the various federal departments and agencies whose collective advice ultimately informed the decision by the Governor in Council to invoke the Emergencies Act.

Kind of sounds exactly what the minister said....Poilievre is pissing on your boots and telling you it's raining and when you look at the forecast and see that it's sunny with 0% precipitation you're calling the forecast wrong lol.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We talk about stamping out mis-information, that has to include our own government.

Lol. It's not going to happen when you have clear mis-information in front of you and you double down on it. (You being a collective you)

[CaptainCrunch]

So nothing CaptainCrunch? Again, even if he did say they asked, which appears he didn't, it would be a nothing-burger to me but that fact that even your semantics argument appears to be false is pretty comical. Asking to invoke the Emergencies Act or asking for the powers that come with the Emergencies Act but not specifically asking for the act to be invoked, who cares? It's like if I ordered a Big Mac™, french fries and coke and then when someone says I ordered a Big Mac™ meal, PP says they are a liar and need to resign lol.

If nothing else, let me again bring up the quote from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service's director during his appearance in front of the committee:
Quote:
Indeed, CSIS is but one among the various federal departments and agencies whose collective advice ultimately informed the decision by the Governor in Council to invoke the Emergencies Act.
Kind of sounds exactly what the minister said....Poilievre is pissing on your boots and telling you it's raining and when you look at the forecast and see that it's sunny with 0% precipitation you're calling the forecast wrong lol.

Again you are getting multiple issues confused here.


The Minister outright lied and the government lied multiple times in invoking the Emergency Powers act.


The Minister said in Parliment that the Police agencies directly requested the Emergency Powers Act. That was an outright Lie


One of the justifications for the emergency measures act was foreign funding by hate groups, or far right wing groups from outside of the country. That was an outright lie as well.


I am not talking about the invocation of the act. Whether the government rightly or wrongly enacted it isn't at the heart of the debate here. Though it looks like the governments reasons for invoking it was not based on factual evidence.


There were no charges of sexual assault or harassment, Most of the funds raised on various funding platforms came from individuals and not groups, and were small dollar amounts. The Police did not request, or demand that the act be invoked.



So the issue that we are talking about. Did the minister lie in parliment "Yes". Did the minster lie about the reasons to invoke the act in terms of financing etc. Yes. Did they base the invoking of the act on any request by law enforcement, or on facts. It doesn't seem likely as they stated in the hearings that they saw a story on CBC as one of the prime reasons, but that story was recinded by CBC as false (foreign funding).


Look I don't care about the invoking of the act, it happened, its up to the government to prove that it was needed and based on fact, and when following the hearings they're having a great deal of difficulty with that.


But its pretty clear that the PSM mislead parliament and for that, he should absolutely resign.

[PeteMoss]

I do wonder if you could strip partisanship out of this - what % of people would care?

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Again you are getting multiple issues confused here.


The Minister outright lied and the government lied multiple times in invoking the Emergency Powers act.


The Minister said in Parliment that the Police agencies directly requested the Emergency Powers Act. That was an outright Lie

I requested the quote, can you provide it?

[Harry Lime]

So, is the emergency act nonsense effectively distracting everyone from the fact that our federal government is turning their back on the energy crisis in the EU, because it's politically inconvenient for them?

Most of the EU is already prepping for blackouts during the winter, and a potential medical crisis concerning weather events. If Justin was going to act, now is the time.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

So, is the emergency act nonsense effectively distracting everyone from the fact that our federal government is turning their back on the energy crisis in the EU, because it's politically inconvenient for them?

Most of the EU is already prepping for blackouts during the winter, and a potential medical crisis concerning weather events. If Justin was going to act, now is the time.

What, do you suppose, Justin can do? It's not like he can have a pipeline built in the next month or a LNG plant up and running on the east coast, which he has proven he won't do anyway. The EU made this bed for themselves depending on the middle east and Russia along with the brainless idea that renewables are all they need.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by chedder

What, do you suppose, Justin can do? It's not like he can have a pipeline built in the next month or a LNG plant up and running on the east coast, which he has proven he won't do anyway. The EU made this bed for themselves depending on the middle east and Russia along with the brainless idea that renewables are all they need.

The problems in the EU will go on for years, easily a decade. Being an energy superpower (potentially) and sitting on our hands looks bad now, but it's going to look really bad in the winter when people die, and Justin tells them to build more windmills. The guy is a walking diplomatic menace, he is already not well loved abroad, and he represents us.

With the will, we could make the problems in EU a one winter mess, or possibly two. I wouldn't be surprised if they get into bed with Venezuela or be forced to kiss and make up with Putin.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The problems in the EU will go on for years, easily a decade. Being an energy superpower (potentially) and sitting on our hands looks bad now, but it's going to look really bad in the winter when people die, and Justin tells them to build more windmills. The guy is a walking diplomatic menace, he is already not well loved abroad, and he represents us.

With the will, we could make the problems in EU a one winter mess, or possibly two. I wouldn't be surprised if they get into bed with Venezuela or be forced to kiss and make up with Putin.

Even if every project had no permitting hurdles we don't have the people or materials to do the work. Supply chain and people constraints are the limiting factors right now and for the next year at least. After that, the next hurdle is investors wanting companies to actually increase production, then I would put regulatory hurdles.

[chedder]

Trudeau has done nothing to help Canada realize it's potential to supplant these despot nations but let's not forget Harper had 9 years to get pipes to the coasts and didn't do it. Nothing east or west.

Keystone and the anchor loop expansion were all he accomplished. Neither of those actually go to tidewater. Original keystone goes to Nebraska and anchor loop helps the original transmountain get a little more through it.

All in all it's been embarrassing for almost 20 years.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I do wonder if you could strip partisanship out of this - what % of people would care?

I agree completely.

I also think that's a big problem with our country though. We are going to end up with what we deserve.

[1qqaaz]

Canada now has a land border with Denmark, so it no longer only borders USA. There was an Island that Canada and Denmark have long had a border dispute over, (Greenland represented by Denmark), and yesterday they officially split it in half. Though it still has to pass through Nunavut and Greenland parliament.

[Roughneck]

EU here we come!

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

ok short but sweet.


The Minister in the house said that the police requested the EA. That's was a lie, in committee the police witnesses did not request the EA.


The Minister and the Liberal government had claimed that the Convoy protesters (idiot) were being financially backed by hate and far right groups in the states. The governments own investigation said that wasn't true and it came from a CBC news story that was later retracted.



In other lies, our public safety stood up in the house and said Bill C-21 wouldn't target legal gun owners, that was a lie.


We talk about stamping out mis-information, that has to include our own government.


Was the Emergency Powers act holy necessary or improperly invoked, I'll leave that up to the conclusions of this Parliamentary Committee to decide. But the reasoning for invoking it, the police asking for it, that never happened and the government rightly or wrongly (and right now procedural if you look at their reasoning was wrongly) bought it into play.



Oh and Timun I don't think I missed your point at all. All opposition parties oppose on principle, that's what they do. The Liberals did it going back further then the Brat Pack lead by Sheila Copps who's only job was to disrupt parliment. The NDP government does it as well.



I mean it would be nice if we had a cooperative atmosphere, but we have governments that ignore opposition day, or shoot down opposition bills on general principle as well.



Government on a whole is built not on cooperation or harmony between parties, but outright building cases for the next election. And there's no fix for it.

Nine paragraphs is short and sweet?

[Superflyer]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Nine paragraphs is short and sweet?

You can't call those paragraphs unless you are Rick Bell

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Nine paragraphs is short and sweet?

It is when you only need to read the next sentence to realize there's no reason to read the rest because he's just regurgitating obvious lies.

Everyone with a 6th grade social studies education understands that there is a separation between the government and the police agencies. The agencies aren't suppose to ask for anything, the government isn't suppose to direct them. Otherwise you could just have Trudeau and Kenney direct the agencies to end their investigations on them, or go further down a slippery slope of ending democracy. The independence is a necessity.

Poilievre and his cronies understood that they would be able to get a "no" to the question "Did you ask the government to invoke the Emergencies Act?"

"No, we never would ask the Government to invoke the act as it's not our position to do so. We just worked with and advised the government for a week while discussing the tools necessary to end the blockade and those tools happened to be in the Emergencies Act and how not getting those tools would continue to prolong the blockade indefinitely. The Emergencies Act was necessary to provide the tools to end the blockade and we thank the government for consulting with us."

But of course the headline reads "Police agencies deny asking for Emergencies Act" and CaptainCrunch falls for it and refuses to acknowledges he's getting played. Everyone else is the liars.

[Doctorfever]

https://torontosun.com/opinion/colum...l-restrictions

Opinion column

Trudeau government not following the science. Politically motivated decisions.


“It’s not due to “the science,” as his government continues to claim — his government hasn’t been following the advice of Dr. Theresa Tam on these issues for some time.”

“Last Friday, Tam, Canada’s chief medical officer, was asked what advice she had given the government on continuing or ending the measures they are now dropping. Tam said it would be best to check with the respective ministers, that she had given the advice already, but when pressed made it clear — without directly saying so — that she had recommended they end.”

[PeteMoss]

Did he have that pre-written a few days ago? Pretty odd timing on the day they are removing most of the restrictions.

[Fuzz]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1536379563277795331