Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And yeah, like I said, all parties use lying as a casual tool. They have a low opinion of the average canadian.

This isn’t meant to defend their opinion, but do you think that’s more of a reflection of their shadiness or of how much Canadians have historically let them get away with?

[timun]

¿Por qué no los dos?

[CaptainCrunch]

This isn’t meant to defend their opinion, but do you think that’s more of a reflection of their shadiness or of how much Canadians have historically let them get away with?

Its both. I think people that go into politics believe that lying is perfectly ok to get power. I also believe that our government and all parties know that they can basically get away with anything. Corruption, lying, whatever doesn't matter, because Canadians just shrug their shoulders to it.


Also its easy to do it, because the penalties for lying, corruption etc are an outright joke, and the proof is that no government, no party makes even a half assed attempt at rectifying it.



The running joke is that every election, a part of every party platform is that they're going to take steps to improve on the concept of open, transparent and honest government.

[timun]

We've also become numb to these calls for resignations because the opposition parties call for it all the time, over just about anything. In this respect I think the alleged unwavering adherence to our "adversarial" Westminster parliamentary system is failing us. (I say "alleged" because I believe the opposition uses "we're just doing our job as opposition!" as an excuse for crappy governance, and a cudgel for political gains.) Conservatives are calling for Mendicino's resignation because that's what they do for just about anything and everything: they oppose everything the government does, paint them in the least flattering manner possible, and at a certain point its inevitable (to me) that all the bluster falls on deaf ears.

[CaptainCrunch]

Yeah it goes beyond that.



There is no mechanism in terms of actual measures to deal with lying and corruption. Oh except for the equivalent of a 5 dollar fine. Ideally the parties themselves should show a level of integrity on this stuff, but they don't they just circle the wagon and protect their own. Even the committees that are supposed to look into this stuff are dismal failures.



And absolutely the opposition should be calling out lies by the Govt, that's their job. And their job is to oppose the government, if they don't agree with what they're doing.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

https://twitter.com/globeandmail/sta...RRBlfm9FCxldvQ

Public Safety Minister Marco Mendocino (Marco Mendacious, amirite) being pressured to resign after repeatedly lying in the House and in Committee, that the Trudeau government only invoked the Emergencies Act because law enforcement told them it was required. A position the agencies state is false.

Sounds like convoy hits, police can't stop it after far too long, government asks what they need to stop it, police say what they need, government recognizes that it requires the Emergencies Act to be invoked, police agencies say yeah that would stop it, government invokes it, convoy ends.

Mendocino characterizes this as "The advice we received was to invoke the Emergencies Act" and " It was on the advice of law enforcement that we invoked the Emergencies Act. It was necessary and it worked."

Committee members asks top police of the agencies if they directly asked for the government to invoke the act. They say no they never directly asked, just that they had consultations about it and agreed that it would give them the tools necessary.

Pierre Poilievre and the right-wing media cherry pick quotes to make it seem like Mendocino was lying and the idiots believe him.

Is that a fair summary? What am I missing?

Originally Posted by Interim Chief Steve Bell

Our goal from the outset was always to remove this protest safely. Doing that required careful coordination between all of our policing partners to develop a strategy that would ensure a safe resolution. All three levels of government responded with legislative measures that aided our strategy. I want to thank the City of Ottawa and the Ontario government for the changes brought forward. I also want to thank the federal government for invoking the federal Emergencies Act.

From a policing perspective, the legislation provided the OPS with the ability to prevent people from participating in this unlawful protest; to restrict people from travelling to any area where the unlawful protest was taking place; to secure protected places and critical infrastructure; to create and maintain the secured area to prevent people from violating the act and safely remove people who were attempting to do so; to go after the money funding the protest; and to require third parties to assist us in removing the heavy vehicles that were clogging streets and creating a safety hazard. It was a critical piece of our efforts, but it was only one piece.
....
I would like to publicly thank Commissioner Carrique and Commissioner Lucki for the amazing support they provided throughout this. When it came to our interactions with various levels of government, our sole focus was identifying how we could access the resources and supports we needed and how we could leverage adequate tools, including the legislative changes like those in the Emergencies Act, which we ultimately received. When it came to political and government operations, those were the only things we focused on.
...
As I indicated in my statement, and as Commissioner Carrique reiterated in his opening statement, there were several factors and several pieces that needed to come into play for us to be able to successfully and safely end the occupation of our streets.
One of those pieces were the injunctions levelled within the city of Ottawa. Another piece was the provincial state of emergency and Emergencies Act that were implemented. The final piece was the Emergencies Act. They all provided different components, legislation and tools for us that were utilized to ultimately and successfully take down the demonstration that was occurring.
Beyond the tools we had, we needed to amass the resources. We did ultimately have just shy of 2,000 police members attend our city streets in order to be able to successfully dismantle this.
We needed not only tools but resources and the plan. That all culminated in the ultimate takedown that you were able to witness.
...
The emergencies measures act specifically provided us with authorities to utilize those officers who attended. It specifically provided us with authorities to exclude vehicles and pedestrians from the area, authorities that we did not have prior to it being invoked.

Originally Posted by Commissioner Thomas Carrique

The province's Critical Infrastructure and Highways regulation, under the Emergency Management and Civil Protection Act, and the federal Emergencies Act were effective supplementary tools needed to help protect critical infrastructure and ensure the continuous and safe delivery of essential goods and services, while at the same time maintaining—or in the case of Ottawa, restoring—peace, order and public security.

Originally Posted by Director David Vigneault of CSIS

Throughout the events of January and February, CSIS remained engaged with the RCMP and other law enforcement partners to ensure the timely sharing of information. As you know, the definition of public order emergency in the Emergencies Act refers to “threats to the security of Canada” as defined in the CSIS Act.

In determining if a situation rises to the level of a public order emergency, the Governor in Council can consider multiple sources of information, not just CSIS intelligence. Indeed, CSIS is but one among the various federal departments and agencies whose collective advice ultimately informed the decision by the Governor in Council to invoke the Emergencies Act.

Originally Posted by Commissioner Brenda Lucki

On February 14, the Government of Canada provided law enforcement with additional tools. The measures enacted under the Emergencies Act provided all police officers across the country—not just the RCMP—with the ability to deal with blockades and unlawful public assemblies. The emergency measure regulations supplemented existing authorities and provided new instruments for law enforcement to address these illegal blockades.
Let's look at some concrete examples.
First, police were able to maintain a secure perimeter throughout the national capital region, and refuse entry to individuals travelling to the illegal protest with the intent of participating. Second, supporting an illegal assembly was also prohibited, and police had the enforcement authority to arrest individuals who continued to supply fuel, food and other materials to an area of an unlawful assembly. Third, there were new powers to compel individuals to provide essential goods and/or services for the removal, towing and storage of vehicles and equipment. I delegated these powers to the OPP, which used them to secure needed equipment to clear the streets of Ottawa.
...(In response to a question of when she was first informed about the Act being potentially invoked)
We spoke about it. I don't have the exact date in front of me, but I would say within the week before, when I was given the situational reports, there were discussions and various talks about the Emergencies Act
...(In response to a question if she saw the need for invocation of the act before it was invoked)

Well, I can tell you from an RCMP perspective, for example, we were in the midst of trying to enforce at Coutts, for example, and we could not enforce because we couldn't access any tow trucks. We weren't able to do the enforcement that we needed on the days that we wanted to enforce because we had no authorities to force the tow truck drivers to assist, and all of them refused to provide the service.
...(In response to if she directly asked for the act).
No. We actually reached out to various police agencies when there was talk about some of the authorities that they were proposing, and of course we were consulted. We were the ones who would be using those authorities, so we were consulted to see if these would be of any use to police in the context of the “freedom convoy”

My favourite:

Vernon White: Commissioner Lucki, we've heard multiple times from ministers and others that the Emergencies Act and the tools provided were specifically requested by police leadership. As a law enforcement agency with primacy in national security, did you ask the government or representatives for the invocation of the Emergencies Act?

Brenda Lucki No, there was never a question of requesting the Emergencies Act.
There was a question of—

Vernon White: I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt. So you never asked for it.

Lol, nice interruption mr. conservative senator. Got his answer, didn't want an explanation.

Even if Mendocino said they had asked, which I'm not seeing, it wouldn't be worth the correction. So no, none of the agencies appeared to have directly asked for it, just strongly suggested it was needed during consultation.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The whole emergency powers committee has shown what a fiasco that was in terms of the government, and declaring it.

I'm sure in saying that you actually read or listened to these. So explain exactly what was the fiasco.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by timun

We've also become numb to these calls for resignations because the opposition parties call for it all the time, over just about anything. In this respect I think the alleged unwavering adherence to our "adversarial" Westminster parliamentary system is failing us. (I say "alleged" because I believe the opposition uses "we're just doing our job as opposition!" as an excuse for crappy governance, and a cudgel for political gains.) Conservatives are calling for Mendicino's resignation because that's what they do for just about anything and everything: they oppose everything the government does, paint them in the least flattering manner possible, and at a certain point its inevitable (to me) that all the bluster falls on deaf ears.

No you have become numb to Liberal lies.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Yoho

No you have become numb to Liberal lies.

Lol

[timun]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And absolutely the opposition should be calling out lies by the Govt, that's their job. And their job is to oppose the government, if they don't agree with what they're doing.

I think you missed my point. They don't just oppose the government "if they don't agree with what they're doing": they oppose everything for any reason whatsoever.

[CaptainCrunch]

ok short but sweet.


The Minister in the house said that the police requested the EA. That's was a lie, in committee the police witnesses did not request the EA.


The Minister and the Liberal government had claimed that the Convoy protesters (idiot) were being financially backed by hate and far right groups in the states. The governments own investigation said that wasn't true and it came from a CBC news story that was later retracted.



In other lies, our public safety stood up in the house and said Bill C-21 wouldn't target legal gun owners, that was a lie.


We talk about stamping out mis-information, that has to include our own government.


Was the Emergency Powers act holy necessary or improperly invoked, I'll leave that up to the conclusions of this Parliamentary Committee to decide. But the reasoning for invoking it, the police asking for it, that never happened and the government rightly or wrongly (and right now procedural if you look at their reasoning was wrongly) bought it into play.



Oh and Timun I don't think I missed your point at all. All opposition parties oppose on principle, that's what they do. The Liberals did it going back further then the Brat Pack lead by Sheila Copps who's only job was to disrupt parliment. The NDP government does it as well.



I mean it would be nice if we had a cooperative atmosphere, but we have governments that ignore opposition day, or shoot down opposition bills on general principle as well.



Government on a whole is built not on cooperation or harmony between parties, but outright building cases for the next election. And there's no fix for it.

[calgarygeologist]

Captain, another recent lie or bit of misinformation coming from the government recently is about the internet regulation bill and whether or not it would include/go after user generated content on sites like YouTube. The government and various Ministrers keep saying no but the CRTC said it would give them the power to go after those people. The opposition keeps attacking the Liberals on this point in that Bill but they keep doubling down on no impact to user generated content.

[Northendzone]

Let s take a moment today to celebrate Trudeau with signing some kind of climate deal with California.

What a glorious day and what an achievement. No sense focusing on issues like the general cost of living when you can be jetting down to cali to lock up useless deals that will do nothing to improve the lives of your subjects

[Aarongavey]

Living in Ottawa, I can say the cops were utterly useless during that entire ordeal. Whether the government asked the cops if they were ever going to do something and the cops shrugged her shoulders and said no not really our plan is just to keep providing escorts for the due lines we may never know, but the cops did absolutely nothing until the emergencies act was invoked.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

ok short but sweet.


The Minister in the house said that the police requested the EA.

Proof?

[PostandIn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

ok short but sweet.


The Minister in the house said that the police requested the EA. That's was a lie, in committee the police witnesses did not request the EA.


The Minister and the Liberal government had claimed that the Convoy protesters (idiot) were being financially backed by hate and far right groups in the states. The governments own investigation said that wasn't true and it came from a CBC news story that was later retracted.



In other lies, our public safety stood up in the house and said Bill C-21 wouldn't target legal gun owners, that was a lie.


We talk about stamping out mis-information, that has to include our own government.


Was the Emergency Powers act holy necessary or improperly invoked, I'll leave that up to the conclusions of this Parliamentary Committee to decide. But the reasoning for invoking it, the police asking for it, that never happened and the government rightly or wrongly (and right now procedural if you look at their reasoning was wrongly) bought it into play.



Oh and Timun I don't think I missed your point at all. All opposition parties oppose on principle, that's what they do. The Liberals did it going back further then the Brat Pack lead by Sheila Copps who's only job was to disrupt parliment. The NDP government does it as well.



I mean it would be nice if we had a cooperative atmosphere, but we have governments that ignore opposition day, or shoot down opposition bills on general principle as well.



Government on a whole is built not on cooperation or harmony between parties, but outright building cases for the next election. And there's no fix for it.

Never mind CC, there actually ARE NO valid reasons to mistrust this government based on previous performance, the Globe and Mail IS a right wing rag and PP IS evil incarnate.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

Never mind CC, there actually ARE NO valid reasons to mistrust this government based on previous performance, the Globe and Mail IS a right wing rag and PP IS evil incarnate.

No one has taken the absurd position you are positing. No need to strawman the shut out of this thread.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

No one has taken the absurd position you are positing. No need to strawman the shut out of this thread.

Oh no GGG has become numb to liberal lies too

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

Let s take a moment today to celebrate Trudeau with signing some kind of climate deal with California.

What a glorious day and what an achievement. No sense focusing on issues like the general cost of living when you can be jetting down to cali to lock up useless deals that will do nothing to improve the lives of your subjects

If things had gone differently, and Energy East wasn't NIMBY'd by the mayor of Montreal, and Trudeau didn't allow that mayor to have the awesome power to kibosh a national pipeline, it would be close to coming online, and allaying much of the pressure on the EU.

The result would be a lessening of inflation on a global scale.

The thing is, it's not too late. Making it a national priority, this could be done in a matter of years. Trudeau should be out there making it a publicly owned pipeline, and ask for monetary input from the EU, to be reimbursed on the delivery side once it is running. The negative effect of the Ukraine War is going to be felt for at least a decade, maybe more.

A real leader would be talking about nothing else right now. What a potential economic and political windfall this could be for Canada.

Instead we have Trudeau, child of the world, environment warrior, savior of small children (as long as they are not indigenous or female).

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Proof?

In defending the controversial decision to invoke the act, Mendicino told a parliamentary committee on April 26 the government “remained engaged with law enforcement throughout (the crisis) to ensure that they had the support and resources they needed. However, when efforts using existing authorities proved ineffective, the advice we received was to invoke the Emergencies Act.”

Two days later, during question period in the House of Commons, Mendicino repeated “it was on the advice of law enforcement that we invoked the Emergencies Act.”

Over the ensuing weeks, RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki told a committee there was “never a question of requesting the Emergencies Act.”

Interim Ottawa police chief Steve Bell also said there was no “direct request” from local police for the act to be invoked, as did Peter Sloly, Bell’s predecessor as chief who resigned during the protests.

Yet police have also said the act helped them deal with the situation. Ontario Provincial Police said it was a welcome supplementary tool, while Lucki has said it gave police the ability to compel tow-truck drivers to help clear semis blocking roads in Ottawa.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...e-invoked.html