Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Pretty questionable that the play on the losing goal was Johnny's fault. Unquestionable that the previous series winning goal was Johnny's fault.

You say there's lots of these guys in the league, but how many really, and how many of those are available? He's actually a very rare player. I agree that it's not an at-any-cost situation, but he's probably not replaceable.

no kidding...McDrai are on the ice for tons of goals against standing there doing nothing. Game should have already been over too.

Also, as the winger its not even Gaudreau's man he should be covering the point

[talladega.25]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Not convincing at all that Johnny should take the blame for the goal. Two flames checkers against two Oilers attackers. Johnny could have got a stick in as the third man, but breaks to cover the play to the point. Lindholm should be on McDavid, but he jumps behind Hannifin for a second to cover the wall for some reason and lets McDavid drift towards the slot. Why did Lindholm just leave McDavid to cover the low-danger pass? Why was Markstrom beaten on an unscreened shot from well out? Picking out Johnny from that sequence to blame it all on him is certainly questionable. Four guys share the blame on that one.

Sure! 4 guys didn't make a play there. You're right! Fact of a matter is, JG was the worst one on that play. Midget 5 Players make more of an effort there.
It was vintage Johnny, not shocked but kinda upset.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Big Erned Nevergivn

Others have said the same, but I feel that the flames have 2 choices:
1. Sign Johnny 10+ Mil X 8 years, or
2. Blow it up

This team isn't in the position to blow it up.

Sutter, defense and Markstrom alone could probably drag us into a wildcard spot.

You'd have to trade everyone and start from scratch which makes no sense when there's like 3 guys in their 30s.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by talladega.25

Sure! 4 guys didn't make a play there. You're right! Fact of a matter is, JG was the worst one on that play. Midget 5 Players make more of an effort there.
It was vintage Johnny, not shocked but kinda upset.

Disagree. Johnny went to cover the point. Lindholm left his man, McDavid, to cover the wall instead of following him towards the middle. Markstrom got beat clean on an unscreened shot from well out. Johnny's man was up high off the screen. I also wish he had checked Draisaitl there, but trying to pin that play on Johnny is just kind of a stretch.

[Mathgod]

115 points. He put this team into the 2nd round. Why are we grilling him over one questionable play?

Sure, his production in the 4 losses to the Oilers left something to be desired, but I think that'll factor into the contract number.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Disagree. Johnny went to cover the point. Lindholm left his man, McDavid, to cover the wall instead of following him towards the middle. Markstrom got beat clean on an unscreened shot from well out. Johnny's man was up high off the screen. I also wish he had checked Draisaitl there, but trying to pin that play on Johnny is just kind of a stretch.

Yes, Johnny's job was to cover the point. I think it was Ryan Pike that went through it in detail.

You will often see wingers turn away from the puck carrier in the defensive zone, and fans are always quick to criticize them for it. Sometimes the criticism is warranted, but most of the time it is because their job is to cover someone else.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, Johnny's job was to cover the point. I think it was Ryan Pike that went through it in detail.

You will often see wingers turn away from the puck carrier in the defensive zone, and fans are always quick to criticize them for it. Sometimes the criticism is warranted, but most of the time it is because their job is to cover someone else.

Which is fine, but when there are two guys setting playoff records, perhaps its time to cheat a bit and let another Oiler try to beat us from 60 feet away...you can still hustle to cover the point afterwards

[dino7c]

Or the Dman can do his job and they have the Oilers forwards caught deep.

It's the last goal so it's over analyzed...we should have been talking about the Oilers players who let Backlund drive the net and score a goal to win game 5.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Or the Dman can do his job and they have the Oilers forwards caught deep.

It's the last goal so it's over analyzed...we should have been talking about the Oilers players who let Backlund drive the net and score a goal to win game 5.

Hey for sure, and the point I'm trying to drive here is not that Johnny sucks, not at all. The team would be way worse without him.

A lot of guys failed to make plays against both Dallas and the Oilers. Lots of puck bobbling, lots of "eh, maybe next time" in the corners. Defensive gaffes, two many men... the whole gamut.

Somebody has to come up with a play. You want to give Johnny a pass on that last goal? Okay. Could he have broken up the play? He didn't try, so we'll never know.

So that's my broader question: okay, lock up Gaudreau for 8 years by 10 million. Now what? Same results year after year? 8 more years of nice regular seasons and nothing to show in the playoffs? Do we expect that the team is trending up? Maybe it is - for real, Monahan and Lucic free up a lot of cash a year from now, maybe Mackey is fantastic, Ruzicka can play an important role... like maybe the team is really starting to gel for a long stable run at things here.

I thought Johnny played pretty well, I thought he tried pretty hard most shifts, was pretty engaged and pretty responsible. But he also wasn't hitting the twine nightly, he didn't take over any games. He didn't dominate. So I'm just not sure what you pay that player.

I feel like the Flames are in a tough spot - they didn't do as well as they'd hoped, and honestly they didn't even compete with the Oilers, they got tuned. Injuries a factor, I get it. I don't know how the team improves from here, and I understand that just walking away from a really good player doesn't help with that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, Johnny's job was to cover the point. I think it was Ryan Pike that went through it in detail.

You will often see wingers turn away from the puck carrier in the defensive zone, and fans are always quick to criticize them for it. Sometimes the criticism is warranted, but most of the time it is because their job is to cover someone else.

True. The only thing is you have to know McDavid was where Draisaitl would pass to 99% of the time. And I don’t know who was on point, but I’d much rather he be shooting or handling the puck than McDavid (who had escaped Lindy).

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by talladega.25

Sure! 4 guys didn't make a play there. You're right! Fact of a matter is, JG was the worst one on that play. Midget 5 Players make more of an effort there.
It was vintage Johnny, not shocked but kinda upset.

Dude, if Johnny was the type of player who makes the strong defensive play on the wall there, then he wouldn’t have fallen to 104th overall and he wouldn’t be a Calgary Flame.

With Johnny, you take the good with the bad and fact is, he brings more good than bad. His board play will always be below average, but his offensive game is up there with the absolute best in the league. Definitely not exclusive to #13 either, most offense first players have their own defensive shortcomings.

[FanIn80]

He just got burned on a read. He saw Drai with it on the half wall, and turned up to take away the pass to the point. Obviously he didn't know McDavid had found some open ice in the slot behind him. McDavid getting open was the real breakdown on that play. Once Drai saw him, he was going to make that pass whether Johnny closed on him or not.

The guy had one of the greatest 5v5 regular seasons of all time, lead the league in +/- and even had 11 more 5v5 points in 12 playoff games. He didn't mail it in. If McDavid had proper coverage, that puck likely goes up to the point and Johnny looks like his usual genius self.

[Erick Estrada]

You don't overreact to a bad playoff series let alone a single bad play. You can go through every goal scored in the Stanley Cup playoffs and find several elite players that made poor plays defensively leading to goals against. There's no such thing as a player that's perfect every shift.

[Jason14h]

Maybe Hanifin shouldn’t muffin the puck up the boards / loose it . JG covered his man . When you start trying to cover other peoples responsibilities you end up with what we usually see with the Oilers - 3 guys chasing one player

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

115 points. He put this team into the 2nd round. Why are we grilling him over one questionable play?

Sure, his production in the 4 losses to the Oilers left something to be desired, but I think that'll factor into the contract number.

The 4 losses to the Oilers will likely not affect Johnny's contract number. His value is based on a career spanning many years and will not be defined by 4 losses where he actually played quite well.

[Macman]

It was a good year for the Flames and all the things fans are nitpicking over are really minor.

That game should have not been in overtime in the first place and that play they were caught in their own end. You also have to keep in mind that things are moving rather quickly and it’s easy to say any player should have done this or that.

Also signing Johnny to 8 years is what every other team has faced with their top free agents, his production will always be there and if the team goes deep in the playoffs even 2-3 times and wins the cup even once it will be worth it.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The 4 losses to the Oilers will likely not affect Johnny's contract number. His value is based on a career spanning many years and will not be defined by 4 losses where he actually played quite well.

He didn’t play well against the Oilers.

But yeah that will have little impact on his ask. Treliving may try to use that excuse though.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Macman

It was a good year for the Flames and all the things fans are nitpicking over are really minor.

That game should have not been in overtime in the first place and that play they were caught in their own end. You also have to keep in mind that things are moving rather quickly and it’s easy to say any player should have done this or that.

Also signing Johnny to 8 years is what every other team has faced with their top free agents, his production will always be there and if the team goes deep in the playoffs even 2-3 times and wins the cup even once it will be worth it.

If we learned anything from that game it's that a player can make about a million decisions and contort his body to do whatever he wants in a quarter second.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

He didn’t play well against the Oilers.

But yeah that will have little impact on his ask. Treliving may try to use that excuse though.

The advanced stats suggest otherwise.

Johnny has a good idea of his value, or actually what is wants in a contract with Calgary.

Nothing Treliving will say will convince him otherwise.

Treliving either pays that price or Johnny may well see what he can get elsewhere.

I'm not sure I like that risk.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The advanced stats suggest otherwise.

Johnny has a good idea of his value, or actually what is wants in a contract with Calgary.

Nothing Treliving will say will convince him otherwise.

Treliving either pays that price or Johnny may well see what he can get elsewhere.

I'm not sure I like that risk.

I am all for signing Johnny at all cost
The other option is the complete rebuild

I don’t really care what the advance stats is saying. My eyes said he didn’t play well, at least not of what you would expect from a top player. He did play better than before so hopefully he can build on that.