Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[TheSquatch]

I don't want Johnny here for 8 years at 10 million, that's just gonna be awful in a couple years when he loses a step.

He's a hell of a player, but his deficiencies were on display as well as his benefits during these playoffs.

I honestly don't know what we should hope for. More of the same locked in for a long time? Could be worse.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

I don't want Johnny here for 8 years at 10 million, that's just gonna be awful in a couple years when he loses a step.

He's a hell of a player, but his deficiencies were on display as well as his benefits during these playoffs.

I honestly don't know what we should hope for. More of the same locked in for a long time? Could be worse.

I say we get 3 fantastic years, 3 good years, and 2 okay years.

This team is a bubble team without him, and tell the owners what its worth to keep making the playoffs.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

I don't want Johnny here for 8 years at 10 million, that's just gonna be awful in a couple years when he loses a step.

He's a hell of a player, but his deficiencies were on display as well as his benefits during these playoffs.

I honestly don't know what we should hope for. More of the same locked in for a long time? Could be worse.

You sign him for 8 because you have to. Then you help him get where he wants to finish his career in year 3-5 if we're no longer competitive.

[TheSquatch]

Make the playoffs, yeah, but we just saw the best Flames team in a long while do absolutely nothing in the playoffs, so how do you get better if you lock up this core for a long time? Now part of that answer might be that in a year, Lucic and Monahan are off the books, freeing up about 11 or 12 million, so things look different next year for cap space.

I really don't know. We've seen Johnny single handedly win games for the team, and then with the season literally on the line, he makes no defensive play at all on Draisaitl along the board, he chooses to disengage completely, no hit, no stick, no nothing, and oddly enough, Draisaitly finds McDavid and that's that. It was awful. This is Johnny's best year, defensively. He's come leaps and bounds. And he finishes on such a sour note... makes me sad.

If he walks, yeah the Flames are immediately worse by a lot. I get that. I just don't know what you pay to keep this level of player - the "almost a gamebreaker but not quite" type player. There's lots of these guys in the league. And honestly Tkachuk is another. You want these guys. But you don't want them at any cost.

And Treliving's been pretty good about this in the past. So we'll see how it boils out.

[mile]

You keep your elite talent and continue to make tweaks around them

Patrick Kane is turning 34 at the end of this year and put up a 92 point season on a bad Blackhawks team, I'm not worried about Johnny

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by mile

You keep your elite talent and continue to make tweaks around them

It probably is this simple.

[Mr.Coffee]

Does it really matter though? Signed, not signed.

The league doesn’t want the Flames to win. So, will it ever really happen? Doubtful. What’s really the point?

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Does it really matter though? Signed, not signed.

The league doesn’t want the Flames to win. So, will it ever really happen? Doubtful. What’s really the point?

Might as well just fold the team now then hey?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

I don't want Johnny here for 8 years at 10 million, that's just gonna be awful in a couple years when he loses a step.

He's a hell of a player, but his deficiencies were on display as well as his benefits during these playoffs.

I honestly don't know what we should hope for. More of the same locked in for a long time? Could be worse.

What if Gaudreau ages like Ray Whitney did? Whitney was productive even up to his 40s. Both smaller, shifty players with sublime skillsets.

Johnny doesn't necessarily rely on just his speed to create offense. It's his offensive instincts, edgework, vision and hands that makes him exceptionally dangerous. The way he can buy time to allow plays to develop and suck in defenders to break down defensive structures is up there with the best in the NHL.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Make the playoffs, yeah, but we just saw the best Flames team in a long while do absolutely nothing in the playoffs, so how do you get better if you lock up this core for a long time? Now part of that answer might be that in a year, Lucic and Monahan are off the books, freeing up about 11 or 12 million, so things look different next year for cap space.

I really don't know. We've seen Johnny single handedly win games for the team, and then with the season literally on the line, he makes no defensive play at all on Draisaitl along the board, he chooses to disengage completely, no hit, no stick, no nothing, and oddly enough, Draisaitly finds McDavid and that's that. It was awful. This is Johnny's best year, defensively. He's come leaps and bounds. And he finishes on such a sour note... makes me sad.

If he walks, yeah the Flames are immediately worse by a lot. I get that. I just don't know what you pay to keep this level of player - the "almost a gamebreaker but not quite" type player. There's lots of these guys in the league. And honestly Tkachuk is another. You want these guys. But you don't want them at any cost.

And Treliving's been pretty good about this in the past. So we'll see how it boils out.

Pretty questionable that the play on the losing goal was Johnny's fault. Unquestionable that the previous series winning goal was Johnny's fault.

You say there's lots of these guys in the league, but how many really, and how many of those are available? He's actually a very rare player. I agree that it's not an at-any-cost situation, but he's probably not replaceable.

[jayswin]

With regards to Johnny's future production I look it as a choice;

a) 100+ point current player that could keep going for years or possibly regress, but a superstar that you build around

b) let him walk and end up in no mans land


Guarantee you how this off season goes if Gaudreau is gone - We sign everyone else (Tkachuk, Mangianpane, Kylington etc) with no additions to offset the Gaudreau loss and local media bootlicks suggesting we got everyone but Gaudreau back under the cap. And we're a middling, nothing hockey team.

I take the gamble if Gaudreau is willing to sign here because this organization will not rebuild without being dragged into it kicking and screaming. Losing Gaudreau does not trigger a rebuild with this organization, full stop. So therefore I don't want to lose Guadreau.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by jayswin

With regards to Johnny's future production I look it as a choice;

a) 100+ point current player that could keep going for years or possibly regress, but a superstar that you build around

b) let him walk and end up in no mans land


Guarantee you how this off season goes if Gaudreau is gone - We sign everyone else (Tkachuk, Mangianpane, Kylington etc) and local media bootlicks suggesting we got everyone but Gaudreau back under the cap. And we're a middling, nothing hockey team.

I take the gamble if Gaudreau is willing to sign here because this organization will not rebuild without being dragged into it killing and screaming. Losing Gaudreau does not trigger a rebuild with this organization, full stop. So therefore I don't want to lose Guadreau.

Yeah without a doubt. I suspect the Flames without Gaudreau reverts back to the 2021 Flames prior to the formation of the current the top line. Team couldn't win more than 3 in a row, win one, lose one, boring games, miss the playoffs but draft 11th overall. No way would anyone sign up to watch that trash.

[PeteMoss]

Worry about 2026 in 2026. In all likelihood the cap will be way up by then and if you have to eat a bunch of money to move Gaudreau or buy him out - you'll live.

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The league doesn’t want the Flames to win. So, will it ever really happen? Doubtful. What’s really the point?

This may be the biggest whiny baby post I've seen in a long time on CP.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by jayswin

With regards to Johnny's future production I look it as a choice;

a) 100+ point current player that could keep going for years or possibly regress, but a superstar that you build around

b) let him walk and end up in no mans land


Guarantee you how this off season goes if Gaudreau is gone - We sign everyone else (Tkachuk, Mangianpane, Kylington etc) with no additions to offset the Gaudreau loss and local media bootlicks suggesting we got everyone but Gaudreau back under the cap. And we're a middling, nothing hockey team.

I take the gamble if Gaudreau is willing to sign here because this organization will not rebuild without being dragged into it kicking and screaming. Losing Gaudreau does not trigger a rebuild with this organization, full stop. So therefore I don't want to lose Guadreau.

Yup, there's only 2 choices here.

1) Sign Johnny, re tool a bit and stay a highly competitive team with a window to try and go further.

2) Lose Johnny, become incredibly mediocre.

There's no rebuild and there's no replacement free agent who's going to give you what he does.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Pretty questionable that the play on the losing goal was Johnny's fault. Unquestionable that the previous series winning goal was Johnny's fault.

You say there's lots of these guys in the league, but how many really, and how many of those are available? He's actually a very rare player. I agree that it's not an at-any-cost situation, but he's probably not replaceable.

Here's the link, and here's how I'd describe the whole thing. And it's a micro-cosm look at why the Flames lost the series, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGrfP1UZnjk

Hanifin makes a limp-noodle pass up the boards, Draisaitl intercepts it. A better harder pass maybe makes it past Draisaitl, and maybe Gaudreau can scamper with it. But you can see as Draisaitl gets the puck, Johnny veers off to his right. This choice is made as Draisaitl is getting to the puck. Johnny just leaves. Lindholm is in no-man's land, heads to Draisaitl, and realizes to late he's left McDavid open - he makes a step or two in that direction, but it's too late. McDavid has shot (a very good shot) and scored. Markstrom does not stop it.

So, who is "at fault"? 4 guys didn't make a play. Hanifin not strong enough in the corner, Gaudreau just chooses not to engage at all, doesn't have ANY effect on the play. None. Except to let Draisaitl make his pass unimpeded. Lindholm isn't effective because he can't get back to McDavid. And Markstrom doesn't make the save (again, this was a hell of a good shot).

So in the mess, there's a lot of "this guy didn't". But to my eye, Gaudreau, with the season on the line, chose to do nothing, just hang out high in case a puck showed up? I dunno. But he sure didn't close a gap, get a stick in, or hit a guy. Nothing.

Buncha guys didn't make perfect plays. Gaudreau made no attempt at a play. And that's the end of the season.

[Kipper_3434]

Yeah Gaudreau wasn't engaged defensively at all on that play. Pretty unusual for him as he back checks hard normally.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Here's the link, and here's how I'd describe the whole thing. And it's a micro-cosm look at why the Flames lost the series, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGrfP1UZnjk

Hanifin makes a limp-noodle pass up the boards, Draisaitl intercepts it. A better harder pass maybe makes it past Draisaitl, and maybe Gaudreau can scamper with it. But you can see as Draisaitl gets the puck, Johnny veers off to his right. This choice is made as Draisaitl is getting to the puck. Johnny just leaves. Lindholm is in no-man's land, heads to Draisaitl, and realizes to late he's left McDavid open - he makes a step or two in that direction, but it's too late. McDavid has shot (a very good shot) and scored. Markstrom does not stop it.

So, who is "at fault"? 4 guys didn't make a play. Hanifin not strong enough in the corner, Gaudreau just chooses not to engage at all, doesn't have ANY effect on the play. None. Except to let Draisaitl make his pass unimpeded. Lindholm isn't effective because he can't get back to McDavid. And Markstrom doesn't make the save (again, this was a hell of a good shot).

So in the mess, there's a lot of "this guy didn't". But to my eye, Gaudreau, with the season on the line, chose to do nothing, just hang out high in case a puck showed up? I dunno. But he sure didn't close a gap, get a stick in, or hit a guy. Nothing.

Buncha guys didn't make perfect plays. Gaudreau made no attempt at a play. And that's the end of the season.

Not convincing at all that Johnny should take the blame for the goal. Two flames checkers against two Oilers attackers. Johnny could have got a stick in as the third man, but breaks to cover the play to the point. Lindholm should be on McDavid, but he jumps behind Hannifin for a second to cover the wall for some reason and lets McDavid drift towards the slot. Why did Lindholm just leave McDavid to cover the low-danger pass? Why was Markstrom beaten on an unscreened shot from well out? Picking out Johnny from that sequence to blame it all on him is certainly questionable. Four guys share the blame on that one.

[Big Erned Nevergivn]

Others have said the same, but I feel that the flames have 2 choices:
1. Sign Johnny 10+ Mil X 8 years, or
2. Blow it up

[1_Flames_Fan]

Pay Johnny around the 10 million he will want for 8 years and enjoy watching him cement his legacy as one of the all time Flames greats. He would probably break a ton of Flames franchise records. It's completely in Johnny's hands though at this point.