Is this Treliving's toughest offseason?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Though I'm a big Mangiapane fan, I'm beginning to warm up to the idea of trading him, especially if his agent keeps playing hardball and not accepting a deal somewhere in the McCann ballpark. The return ought to be something good though, like a pair of firsts or a blue chip prospect.

I think that Treliving was playing as much hardball as Mangiapane's agent was.

Now that Mangiapane has had a breakthrough season, there is no reason why he shouldn't lever that into as good a payday as he can get.

[Poe969]

He has to have 2 directions planned out, it all hinges on weather or not Johnny stays or goes. If Johnny stays and signs a reasonable contract, you try and build around him. Shed some salary and try to inject more skill to the roster. Explore some trade options (Tkachuk/Mangipane/one of the D) to fill in some holes with young players on good deals. If Johnny walks...IMO you explore a rebuild or at least a "down year retool". Treliving has been a buyer since he got here, I honestly think he would do well on a rebuild. I think he would get good returns in trades and would sig young players to good deals.

The team is not good without Johnny, he's the straw that stirs the drink and the one who teams need to focus on. I think without him both Tkachuk and Lindholm look a LOT worse and there is no one in the system to replace him. Trying to replace Johnny with a UFA would be a mistake, unless it's a top point getting forward who's still young...like Johnny.

During exit interviews, if they haven't already happened, I would ask every player with a trade clause if they are willing to accept a trade and/or ask for lists where players are open to trades. The Flames have a lot of good players (other than Johnny , none of them can be a winning team's best player) so I th8nk there would be a market for them should the Flames choose to rebuild.

Ideally, both Johnny and Tkachuk sign good long-term deals, Lucic retires, Monahan either returns at 100% or pulls a Kucherov and comes back 100% before playoffs, one or 2 prospects make the jump and stay full time on the team which allows the team to make a trade or two to add some skill, and a good UFA signs a good deal with the Flames.

It's crazy but I think the future of the team depends on what Johnny does.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Poe969

It's crazy but I think the future of the team depends on what Johnny does.

It’s not crazy at all.

How many teams can lose their outright best player and just walk along as if it’s not some major, franchise altering loss?

Pittsburgh without Crosby? They’d be rebuilding.
Washington without Ovechkin? Rebuilding.
Edmonton without McDavid? lol
Toronto without Matthews?

If the Flames lose Gaudreau there is no path forward for them to be a top tier team other than drafting at the top of the draft. Players of Johnny’s quality are a rare breed.

[Royle9]

Trelivings window ended this year (Thanks War room)

This is the most important off-season the Flames have had in maybe 10+ years.
If Johnny walks, we're in a world of hurt and back to that infinite cycle of mediocrity we all have grown to love.

If these playoffs have proven anything, is that once again as a Franchise you need lottery picks and or drafted and developed players in your organization to help carry you to success.

Colorado:
MacKinnon
Landeskog
Rantanen
Makar

Edmonton:
McBaby
Crysaitl
The other numerous 1st O/A picks they squandered

Tampa:
Stamkos
Kucherov
Vasilevksy
Point
Hedman

NYR: (some of their stars were lucky to fall to their lap for different reasons)
Zibanejad
Shesterkin
Lafreniere
Kakko
Fox
Miller

Having draft success and lottery picks propels you out of the mediocrity and its not even debatable. Unfortunately even if we tanked you can bet the hockey gods would curse this team and we would be the top 3 pick who gets bumped to 7th.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It’s not crazy at all.

How many teams can lose their outright best player and just walk along as if it’s not some major, franchise altering loss?

Pittsburgh without Crosby? They’d be rebuilding.
Washington without Ovechkin? Rebuilding.
Edmonton without McDavid? lol
Toronto without Matthews?

If the Flames lose Gaudreau there is no path forward for them to be a top tier team other than drafting at the top of the draft. Players of Johnny’s quality are a rare breed.

Islanders without Tavares?

[Jiri Hrdina]

I very much doubt that if Johnny leaves that triggers a re-build. Based on both the historic behavior of this organization and the current state.

Consider
- Darryl Sutter is the coach. He's not here to steer a re-build
- They have a #1 goalie locked up for several years
- They have several core players in their prime
- They are trying to get a new building

There's just no way. If Johnny leaves they will re-sign Tkachuk and then try to sign someone via free agency to replace Johnny.

The summer after is potentially when I can see them starting to consider the timing of a re-build. But not this year. No way. Ain't happening and we should all come to grips with that as those who want a re-build are going to be disappointed.

[Voodooman]

They have to re-sign Johnny, no matter the cost. Letting him leave sets the franchise back at least 5 years, likely closer to 10.

Get whatever you can on the trade market for Chucky. Too much ego and too little return in the playoffs. That's a $9M luxury this team can't afford.

See if you can sign Mangi in the $6 to 6.5 range, trade Hanafin for the 3 P package (player, pick, prospect) and see if you can incentivize someone to take on either Looch or Monahan. Try and re-up Zadorov for lower cap, longer term, let Gudbranson walk, and bring up Mackey into a full time role.

I think the Dube question may solve itself....

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Voodooman

They have to re-sign Johnny, no matter the cost.

So you would give him 8 years @$16,500,000 if you had to, the maximum allowed, LOL?

What is the limit you would go to?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I very much doubt that if Johnny leaves that triggers a re-build. Based on both the historic behavior of this organization and the current state.

Consider
- Darryl Sutter is the coach. He's not here to steer a re-build
- They have a #1 goalie locked up for several years
- They have several core players in their prime
- They are trying to get a new building

There's just no way. If Johnny leaves they will re-sign Tkachuk and then try to sign someone via free agency to replace Johnny.

The summer after is potentially when I can see them starting to consider the timing of a re-build. But not this year. No way. Ain't happening and we should all come to grips with that as those who want a re-build are going to be disappointed.

I agree with this. And for anyone that really wants a rebuild, I assume it's because you're not happy with the current version of the team. Is there any reason to believe the next build will go any better?

At this point, it at least feels like we have a team that is capable of being in the mix.

[Vinny01]

The Flames have had some great draft success since Sutter stepped away as GM. Looking at 2 of the top 3 free agents this team has their most important was a 4th round pick and the third most important was a 6th round pick and these 2 players combined for 75 goals this year. This is the same scouting team that drafted Fox in the third round.

In the 5 year span of 2011-2016 the Flames drafted 2 legit superstars and a high end top 6 forward. That isn’t considering the first pairing Dman in the latter part of round 2 in 2015 or the other budding top 4 D picked at the end of the same round.

With Kirens and Wolf they may have done it again in the past couple of drafts. When you look at Tampa yes Hedmen is a huge part of that team and Stamkos as well but their core 3 of Kucherov (2nd round), Point (3rd round) and Vasilesky (back half of 1st round) were all acquired without tanking.

Treliving needs to minimize spending picks in trades and the Flames need to keep doing what they are doing when it comes to drafting and they hopefully keep a very competitive team around their stars if they are able to sign them

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So you would give him 8 years @$16,500,000 if you had to, the maximum allowed, LOL?

What is the limit you would go to?

If that is what it takes to keep Johnny then he is lying about wanting to stay here.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I agree with this. And for anyone that really wants a rebuild, I assume it's because you're not happy with the current version of the team. Is there any reason to believe the next build will go any better?

At this point, it at least feels like we have a team that is capable of being in the mix.

If Johny walks I want a rebuild. If he stays then lets keep going for it.
I believe this team with JG can stay in the mix. Without him I'm not so sure. We don't have another dynamic offensive player to replace him. Your first line will be chucky-lind-toff. It would be the slowest first line in the league and whose driving play.

Its not about the next rebuild going better. Im not dissapointed in this iteration. Its about losing your most dynamic offensive player and the only way to replace him is getting extremely lucky drafting one late or getting top draft picks.

I guess if he walks you can always replace him through UFA, but theres not alot of high quality options, and no one does what he does.
Forsberg would be the best, kadri and giroux next. Have trouble seeing any of them signing here though

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If that is what it takes to keep Johnny then he is lying about wanting to stay here.

There is really no lying. He may want to stay but if that’s what the market pay him then that’s what it is. He is a professional. Professional gets paid.

I don’t think anybody would pay him that much though. Maybe 10M.

[Flamesfan05]

If Johnny walks. Who can or want to come in to drive the offense if we don’t do a rebuild

The Flames basically lost the driver if he leaves

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I agree with this. And for anyone that really wants a rebuild, I assume it's because you're not happy with the current version of the team. Is there any reason to believe the next build will go any better?

At this point, it at least feels like we have a team that is capable of being in the mix.

Yup and if I were the Flames I'd focus on what can I do to extend that window. Which I think is doable.

If Johnny leaves my #1 target would be Kadri (more than Forsberg). Yes he refused a trade here but that was more about him thinking by refusing that trade he could stay in Toronto.

I would go to him and say "You know we want you here. We made a trade for you a couple years ago. Our desire to have you here has only increased. We think you are exactly what our team needs and we think you will love it here and our fans will love you".

Kadri, Lindholm, Backlund up the middle.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I agree with this. And for anyone that really wants a rebuild, I assume it's because you're not happy with the current version of the team. Is there any reason to believe the next build will go any better?

At this point, it at least feels like we have a team that is capable of being in the mix.

I think the next rebuild will be better than this one if Johnny walks because it won't be able to get much worse. And I mean worse because this team won't be so bad that they'd get a top pick, I mean worse because they won't be good enough to make the playoffs and wont be bad enough to get a high pick.

In NHL its better to be bad than average. Bad gets you a hance to get better, average levels out and stays that way.

[8sPOT]

I just can't see Johnny walking. Flames can offer him the money, he seems to genuinely like being here and loves his teammates.

Maybe I'm being naive and optimistic but I see both Johnny and Tkachuk singing here long term. Having said that, no idea what the terms might be.

With Pelletier and to a lesser extent Zary, Phillips, Kerins, etc. we should have some forward prospects coming up. Its on the back end I'm not as sure. Valimaki was a stud, but has just not been the same since his ACL injury, Mackey could be a guy, or he could also just as likely not be. Doesn't seem to be much help coming up from the system on defense.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Lucic isn’t going to waive to go to Arizona. My guess his 8 team trade list will be teams that have at the very least a legit shot at the playoffs .

10 team list this year. But Lucic has his ring. I think AZ has some attraction for older players with families.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yup and if I were the Flames I'd focus on what can I do to extend that window. Which I think is doable.

If Johnny leaves my #1 target would be Kadri (more than Forsberg). Yes he refused a trade here but that was more about him thinking by refusing that trade he could stay in Toronto.

I would go to him and say "You know we want you here. We made a trade for you a couple years ago. Our desire to have you here has only increased. We think you are exactly what our team needs and we think you will love it here and our fans will love you".

Kadri, Lindholm, Backlund up the middle.

Interesting pick. I'm always curious who people would name IF Johnny were to not return - who's even a decent replacement?!
One could argue you could potentially sign a really good player with more grit which Kadri provides (for the record I'm all about signing Johnny).

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It does count, but that is irrelevant to the point Jiri was making, which is that if Lucic collects his bonus, and is only owed a small percentage of his remaining earnings after July, then the incentive for Lucic to continue playing is significantly reduced.

Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

I was looking at the cap saved.