Russia invades Ukraine

[burn_this_city]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517398931306594306

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

My experience is actually that middleclass and educated people both in China and in other Global South emerging markets are far more informed and aware of what's going on in the West than middleclass and educated Westerners are about what's going on in the Global South. The disparity is really striking.

You're right, and that often includes myself.
I just believed that most people would be getting their information from a very restricted and controlled Chinese media and internet landscape.

[Firebot]

There are some clear signs of massive development or opposition within Russia, whether done by Ukrainians or Russians

*Edit: Apparently a normal warehouse burned down, not the claimed TsNIIMash building, deleted the first tweet since it's incorrect*

Dams being blown up

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517523880331681794

So many faulty wiring going on.

Some coincidental I am sure considering Russian worksmanship, but still

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I doubt many of the average citizens in China hear anything about what another country says to about theirs.

And China is trying to take over the world economy, and I don't think other nations should just let it happen. Especially if the reason is to "not upset the Chinese"

At a certain point you can't pander to the demands of another country because you don't want to offend them. I don't care if some people in Russia harden their hearts against the west because the actions of their own country causes their lives to be harder.

Okay, whatever you say!

[FlameOn]

Our M777s are for sure going to Ukraine now. US confirms they are sending theirs 72 of theirs as part of latest arms package.

"We're in a critical window" of time now, U.S. President Joe Biden said Thursday in announcing he had approved an additional US$800 million in battlefield aid that includes 72 of the U.S. Army's 155mm howitzers, along with 144,000 artillery rounds and more than 120 armed drones that will require training for Ukrainian operators.

Heavy weapons such as artillery are shaping up as a key feature of the unfolding battle for Ukraine's eastern region known as the Donbas. The relatively flat terrain is suited for what the military calls manoeuvre warfare -- the movement of tanks and other ground forces backed by long-range guns like the 155mm howitzer.

The Russians have been deploying their own additional artillery to the Donbas region in recent days, along with more ground troops and other material to support and sustain what could be a long fight for terrain in Ukraine's industrial heartland.

The howitzers the U.S. is sending to Ukraine will be the latest American model, known as the M777, used by the Army and the Marine Corps. Smaller and more maneuverable than the older model, the M777 can be deployed on the battlefield by heavy-lift helicopters and moved relatively quickly between positions by seven-ton trucks that also are being provided by the Pentagon.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/why-was...aine-1.5871712

[CaptainCrunch]

And chances are we'll send out the M777's and not get them back and our government won't replace them at all, so it'll be another gap in in our military. I mean I doubt that we come close to replacing the anti-tank rockets that we sent over there.



I mean it was bought up that we should send half of our LAV's over there, which is fine and needed, but does anyone believe it won't take decades to replace them. I'm all for supporting Ukraine. But its going to be at the cost of reducing our Forces readiness and equipment.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Our M777s are for sure going to Ukraine now. US confirms they are sending theirs 72 of theirs as part of latest arms package.



https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/why-was...aine-1.5871712

That is some heavy duty whoop ass being sent over damn.

144,000 howitzers raining down on Russian positions doesn’t sound very comfortable for the invaders.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And chances are we'll send out the M777's and not get them back and our government won't replace them at all, so it'll be another gap in in our military. I mean I doubt that we come close to replacing the anti-tank rockets that we sent over there.



I mean it was bought up that we should send half of our LAV's over there, which is fine and needed, but does anyone believe it won't take decades to replace them. I'm all for supporting Ukraine. But its going to be at the cost of reducing our Forces readiness and equipment.

I always just kind of assumed that whatever goes over there is never coming back. The equipment is going to be very used by the time the conflict is over, and I can't imagine that maintenance schedules get followed to a tee when a side is constantly defending. By the time the war is over, most of it will probably be junk.

[burn_this_city]

I'm not convinced we'll continue to underfund the military after this. We haven't really had a true reason before the invasion, this has been a wake up call to politicians in the West.

They moved on the F-35s pretty quickly considering the previous inertia of the last decade.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

That is some heavy duty whoop ass being sent over damn.

144,000 howitzers raining down on Russian positions doesn’t sound very comfortable for the invaders.

It sounds impressive, but M777s won't last long on the battlefield. Other points to note:

The railways leading to the Donbass have been destroyed as far as I know, so no rail resupply. The AFU lacks logistics vehicles to move that quantity of ammo. One 155mm bullet plus the charge weighs 50 kg+. Assume a three-axle military truck can carry, let's say, 7.5 metric tonnes or 150 bullets. That's about what one gun - maybe two - will fire on a good day.

However, that gun has to immediately move after firing or it will be subject to counter battery almost imminently. So, it's not going to be able to maintain any amount of sustained fire.

But, the prime mover for the gun does not carry the ammo. Or, at least it shouldn't. That means you require other trucks to move the ammo.

Even if you want to factor in hopium and assume the AFU can maintain sustained fires, the logistics becomes even more of a problem.

The distance from the Ukrainian border with Poland to the Donbas front is about 1,200 km. That is at least a two day's drive with an army truck. The daily supplies for one gun on the frontline will thus require constant traffic plus all the fuel needed to run them. Adding maintenance and load/unload time means even more trucks. Now multiply that with the number of guns that are supposed to come in.

So now you're looking at a huge transport operation with lots of trucks the AFU does not have. So how will it get all those shells to the frontline? Civilian trucks moving at night, I assume. Those guys will deliver to an ammo point somewhere in the rear and the echelon from the guns will drive back (at night) to resupply and then drive back to the guns. But the civvie trucks can't move in a convoy. Why? Too easy to track. When they arrive at their destination, the Russians launch their missiles. So, they have to move dispersed, which increases the timelines.

And after all of that, the M777s will break down anyway.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Okay, whatever you say!

I explained why I felt that could be the case, and why I admitted to often having the same lack of eastern education the poster referred to westerners having.

So you're a bit late with your drive by post with the intent to only be an ass.

at least JohnnyB took the time to kindly correct me.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'm not convinced we'll continue to underfund the military after this. We haven't really had a true reason before the invasion, this has been a wake up call to politicians in the West.

They moved on the F-35s pretty quickly considering the previous inertia of the last decade.

Well tbf, early 2022 was their own deadline to make a choice, that wheel was spinning long before this invasion

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Well tbf, early 2022 was their own deadline to make a choice, that wheel was spinning long before this invasion

Canada has to recognize that we share a border with Russia (the north) and we need to maintain sovereignty against a neighbor who has shown territorial conquering tendencies.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I explained why I felt that could be the case, and why I admitted to often having the same lack of eastern education the poster referred to westerners having.

So you're a bit late with your drive by post with the intent to only be an ass.

at least JohnnyB took the time to kindly correct me.

Drive by post? I fully support Ukraine, I have family there. Yet you say I have a hatred for Ukraine. Do you have family there? I fully support Ukraine. You know this.

Is Zelensky a nazi? I critic Ukraine politics and now I am a Ukraine hater?

Your posts are racist and discrimatory.

When it does not go your way you lie. You read my posts saying I fully support Ukraine. Then say I have a hatred for Ukraine. An out right lie!

I am sorry you dont understand. I can support Ukraine. Yet disagree with their politics.

You claim in a post you are not educated. Well that is clearly evident.

I dont hate Ukraine. Damn I am proud of them. Born Canadian but so Ukrainian. So proud of my heritage.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'm not convinced we'll continue to underfund the military after this. We haven't really had a true reason before the invasion, this has been a wake up call to politicians in the West.

They moved on the F-35s pretty quickly considering the previous inertia of the last decade.

I’m not sure, short term maybe, but unfunny f the military in Canada should be a Heritage Moment .


Canada has never not had an underfunded military, WW2 is an exception.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I would call that propaganda. On the wests side of things.

Why would Russian troops lay mines like that? Wide open and easy to see. Maybe to lure them around such an obvious death trap to the mines deployed to the side.

Makes no sense at all. Yes if one vehicle rolls over them 15 mines explode to take out one vehicle. Total waste of exposives. Again makes no sense!

This is like seeing a couch on Deerfoot. I go around. Again that is probably the plan. Propaganda aint it great!

Russian troop have radiation poisoning but the Ukrainian workers appear to be ammune?

More propaganda.

I do not know what to believe in this war.

I am 100 percent on the Ukraine side of things with one exception. They had a choice to join Nato but refused too. Now they beg and plead for weapons.

Hard to support a country that does not support our values.

Without nato this war would be over.

first, the drive by post comment wasn't to you.

all I keep asking is you explain this statement. While you say you're 100% supporting Ukraine, you then say

Hard to support a country that does not support our values.

I'm still waiting for you to clarify the line in bold. If you 100% support Ukraine, it's odd that one sentence later say it's hard to support them.

That's my whole issue. you made a statement and I just want you to explain it.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

So now you're looking at a huge transport operation with lots of trucks the AFU does not have.

US is also shipping a crap ton of trucks to go with the M777s. Also Canada is only provided 4 artillery pieces. LOL

M777 can be deployed on the battlefield by heavy-lift helicopters and moved relatively quickly between positions by seven-ton trucks that also are being provided by the Pentagon.

Canada recently sent four of its relatively new M-777 howitzers to Ukraine's military to help it face down a renewed Russian offensive from the east, CBC News has learned.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ukr...lery-1.6427762

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Canada has to recognize that we share a border with Russia (the north) and we need to maintain sovereignty against a neighbor who has shown territorial conquering tendencies.

A major issue is what kind of invasion would Russian send? Surely, they can't mount an invasion of our populated areas close to the border. That would require marching armies through a lot of hostile territory and Russia barely seems capable of marching to Ukraine.

If Russia is just going to take part of our Arctic territories, the questions becomes how do we possibly defend against that.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

It sounds impressive, but M777s won't last long on the battlefield. Other points to note:

The railways leading to the Donbass have been destroyed as far as I know, so no rail resupply. The AFU lacks logistics vehicles to move that quantity of ammo. One 155mm bullet plus the charge weighs 50 kg+. Assume a three-axle military truck can carry, let's say, 7.5 metric tonnes or 150 bullets. That's about what one gun - maybe two - will fire on a good day.

However, that gun has to immediately move after firing or it will be subject to counter battery almost imminently. So, it's not going to be able to maintain any amount of sustained fire.

But, the prime mover for the gun does not carry the ammo. Or, at least it shouldn't. That means you require other trucks to move the ammo.

Even if you want to factor in hopium and assume the AFU can maintain sustained fires, the logistics becomes even more of a problem.

The distance from the Ukrainian border with Poland to the Donbas front is about 1,200 km. That is at least a two day's drive with an army truck. The daily supplies for one gun on the frontline will thus require constant traffic plus all the fuel needed to run them. Adding maintenance and load/unload time means even more trucks. Now multiply that with the number of guns that are supposed to come in.

So now you're looking at a huge transport operation with lots of trucks the AFU does not have. So how will it get all those shells to the frontline? Civilian trucks moving at night, I assume. Those guys will deliver to an ammo point somewhere in the rear and the echelon from the guns will drive back (at night) to resupply and then drive back to the guns. But the civvie trucks can't move in a convoy. Why? Too easy to track. When they arrive at their destination, the Russians launch their missiles. So, they have to move dispersed, which increases the timelines.

And after all of that, the M777s will break down anyway.

I would assume that the US/West will have worked out how to get the kit from Poland to the East, I would guess they will provide the guns with their supporting kit as a package.
As to deployment you have a point but if we have learnt one thing so far is the Ukrainians seem to have a massive advantage in intel, my guess is they know where the Russian guns are and those are the targets for the Ukrainians, my guess is the whole point of the deployment is to counter Russian arty which in and of itself minimises counter battery fire

[opendoor]

Don't the M777s have a range that exceeds almost all of Russia's artillery? That would definitely lessen the risk of them getting destroyed. They can fire from out of range of most Russian artillery, whereas the Russians would need to put themselves within range to respond.

I expect the Russians will use drones to help locate them and guide their artillery, but then so will Ukraine and they'll have a range advantage.