Russia invades Ukraine

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Itse

This started before the sanctions. Leonid Shulman, head of the transport service of Gazprom Invest, opened his veins on January 29th.

I'm thinking it's either some kind of a turf war (after all the Russian oligarchy is a bunch of crooks), or Putin cleaning out dissidence.

For sure. Putin consolidating power, taking out rivals/dissidents, etc... has been an ongoing process. However, if you do freeze the assets of thousands of millionaires, I wouldn't be totally surprised to see several off themselves either.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by SebC

If Ukraine had this option available they should've used it a long time ago.

Not necessarily. I don’t think even if Ukraine had it they’d use that. Russia would retaliate with heavier strikes. Ukraine is already winning on the groun they don’t need to escalate. Not that I think they can when the Soviet Union broke up all the ballistic missiles got handed over to Russia.

[mivdo]

Originally Posted by blankall

For sure. Putin consolidating power, taking out rivals/dissidents, etc... has been an ongoing process. However, if you do freeze the assets of thousands of millionaires, I wouldn't be totally surprised to see several off themselves either.

But to also kill your own family? Is that a common thing when contemplating suicide in Russia?

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by mivdo

But to also kill your own family? Is that a common thing when contemplating suicide in Russia?

That was the Kremlin sending a message

[djsFlames]

I'm not too sad about these "accidents" happening around Russia all of a sudden.

You'll also notice that they're occurring around facilities and economic infrastructure and not apartment buildings and maternity hospitals.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It has the opposite effect. Any anti-Russian actions by the west are widely publicized by Putin propaganda. Average Russian people feel like "Oh well, the west hates us anyway, nothing we can do about it, we might as well rally around Putin". This creates a us vs them mentality in Russia.

This is something that many in the west can't seem to understand. The same thing has happened in China and happens every time American officials make perceived negative statements about China and not letting China take over as the world's leading economy. It's helped pull the citizens there together in support of their government.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

That was the Kremlin sending a message

yep, leave the country, you will still have family, Granny and Aunties, cousins and nieces we can rape and murder

[blankall]

Originally Posted by mivdo

But to also kill your own family? Is that a common thing when contemplating suicide in Russia?

Russia has a massive homicide and suicide rate. Unlike the USA, where gang violence is the leading cause of homicide, the lion's share of the homicides in Russia are among people who know each other. Russia also has an abysmally low life expectancy, because so many people drink themselves to death there.

Russian society has a lot of problems right now, top to bottom.

Police statistics
Official statistics from the Russian Police Department (MVD) for 2008:[25]

Every fourth family in the country has experienced violence of different forms
Two-thirds of homicides are caused by family or household motives.
Up to 40% of all serious violent crimes are committed within families.
According to the official data from Russian Police, 1,060 people were killed in their own families in year 2015. 304 of them were women, 756 – men and 36 children.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domest...036%20children.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

This is a reasonable statement. Attacking legitimate Russian targets is acceptable. The hope is civilian casualties are nil.



This is NOT a reasonable statement. Civilians are never fair game, sorry.

Sure it's reasonable. Who is running and maintaining the factories, supply routes, communications, other strategic locations? Civilians. There will be collateral damage attacking locations and it's fair game.

I never said bomb cities, hospitals, daycares.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Sure it's reasonable. Who is running and maintaining the factories, supply routes, communications, other strategic locations? Civilians. There will be collateral damage attacking locations and it's fair game.

I never said bomb cities, hospitals, daycares.

Dude, you said civilians are fair game for attack.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Dude, you said civilians are fair game for attack.

And they are. Civilians are literally at strategic places that should be attacked.

[burn_this_city]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517329435007111169

[FlameOn]

MOD updates and map updates for the day. Russians continue to attack Ukrainian positions near Kramatorsk but have made little progress in the last 24 hrs. In Izium, they have made some minor gains near roads that they are still limited to, but haven't made any breakthroughs anywhere else. Previously Russians had announced Rubizhne was under there control, but this does not appear to be the case now.

Russians are more aggressively covering their ground attacks than previous with proper air support, however this has lead to at least one aircraft and two helicopters being shot down by Ukrainian MANPADs.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517006875316965376

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517287362924978176

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517286979049865216

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517222165191577600

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517144308016500738

Larger map from Wikipedia

Spoiler!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_R...ion_of_Ukraine

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The sad/funny thing is that the Ukranian's will get Canadian bought military hardware, faster then our own military can get pistols or boots or proper sleeping bags.

Our Forces are literally like the kid outside of the Candy store window staring in as everyone else gets their stuff.

Originally Posted by Byrns

Its going to take the government 20+ years to replace that arty.

It will take that long to find a battery's worth of serviceable guns to send to Ukraine.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by activeStick

This is something that many in the west can't seem to understand. The same thing has happened in China and happens every time American officials make perceived negative statements about China and not letting China take over as the world's leading economy. It's helped pull the citizens there together in support of their government.

I doubt many of the average citizens in China hear anything about what another country says to about theirs.

And China is trying to take over the world economy, and I don't think other nations should just let it happen. Especially if the reason is to "not upset the Chinese"

At a certain point you can't pander to the demands of another country because you don't want to offend them. I don't care if some people in Russia harden their hearts against the west because the actions of their own country causes their lives to be harder.

[Firebot]

The current russian offensive is absolutely disastrous.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517266425605410816

That's 6 major aircraft of note. 6! In one day.

What is most notable is that the su-34 and su-35 were both shot down at 6000 meter altitude.

This means either Starstreak at its maximum range, or new AA on the frontlines

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517507727525822466

Infantry + Starstreak > 90 million su-35

[FlameOn]

Lines up with Ukrainian figures and the thousands of unclaimed Russian soldier bodies Ukraine is trying to do facial recognition on to contact families.

Also not surprised about the Moskva numbers, rumor was all the enlisted personnel were left to fight the fire up till the end.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1517387374115926017

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I doubt many of the average citizens in China hear anything about what another country says to about theirs.

And China is trying to take over the world economy, and I don't think other nations should just let it happen. Especially if the reason is to "not upset the Chinese"

At a certain point you can't pander to the demands of another country because you don't want to offend them. I don't care if some people in Russia harden their hearts against the west because the actions of their own country causes their lives to be harder.

My experience is actually that middleclass and educated people both in China and in other Global South emerging markets are far more informed and aware of what's going on in the West than middleclass and educated Westerners are about what's going on in the Global South. The disparity is really striking.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Infantry + Starstreak > 90 million su-35

Speaks to the incompetence of Putin and Russia's military leadership's planning and logistics. Those fighters shouldn't be anywhere near the range of Starstreaks. Sudden hastily planned invasion with delusional objectives and timelines without enough PGMs to fight a long war, and Russians will lose more equipment than they will be able to afford to replace.

Not to mention those aircraft are within the range of NATO radar in Romania and intel is likely being shared with Ukraine.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Speaks to the incompetence of Putin and Russia's military leadership's planning and logistics. Those fighters shouldn't be anywhere near the range of Starstreaks. Sudden hastily planned invasion with delusional objectives and timelines without enough PGMs to fight a long war, and Russians will lose more equipment than they will be able to afford to replace.

Not to mention those aircraft are within the range of NATO radar in Romania and intel is likely being shared with Ukraine.

They lost a Su-35 earlier to a MANPAD and several Su-34s, because they had to fly at lower altitudes due to limited guided missiles after a couple weeks.

At 6000 meters altitude, they are out of range of a MANPAD, even the max ceiling range of a Starstreak is supposed to be 5km. I am sure they thought they were safe at 6000 meters.