Russia invades Ukraine

[FlamesAddiction]

I wonder how much a ship like that is worth in dollars.

People in Russia who support the war despite the death and suffering may start to have second thoughts if you put a dollar value on it. Unfortunately, that is how psychopaths relate to the world.

[Yamer]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1514422310291267593

[FlameOn]

MOD updates for the day. Biggest news for the day is the strike on the Russian Moskva guided missile cruiser, flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, reportedly by Ukrainian anti-ship missiles. Russia appears to be spinning this as a fire caused by poor maintenance which lead to an ammo explosion. The strike is likely the result of new sharing of detailed intelligence between the US and Ukraine to include targets in Crimea, and further out into the occupied territories.

Russians appear have gained further ground in Mariupol forcing the remaining Ukrainian forces to retreat today. Otherwise there has been minimal changes in areas of control.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1514195863610052613

https://twitter.com/user/status/1514107625348210690

https://twitter.com/user/status/1514370583202476033

Larger map from Wikipedia

Spoiler!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_R...ion_of_Ukraine

[IliketoPuck]

Newer cruisers are well over a billion dollars.

The Moskva is a bit older though.

$500M is a safe bet.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I wonder how much a ship like that is worth in dollars.

Don't know but I know where they can get a new one built.

If it is confirmed, the strike would have destroyed Ukrainian - not Russian - workmanship. In a twist of history, Moskva was built at Mykolaiv under Soviet rule in 1983, then refitted at the same yard under Ukrainian rule in the 1990s.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/a...lack-sea-fleet

[Roof-Daddy]

Looking like a real champ Putin, you dip#### dumbass.

If only that nation didn't have nukes, the west could just tear through that useless military like a hot knife through butter, remove that murderous POS dictator from his perch and stick him in a small room with no windows for the rest of his unnatural life.

Despicable scumbag.

[CaptainCrunch]

Forbes kind of predicted the demise of the Moskva. One of three cruisers of the Atlant Class which were laid down in the Mid 80's. The Moskva was originally named the Slava. It had just come out of a three year refit to extend its life by a decade. They were designated as fleet command ships and alternatives to the powerful Kirov Nuclear battlecruiser.



This is a big loss for the Russians and a moral crusher. Someone screwed the pooch as The Moskva carried 64 long range Fort surface to air missiles and 6 CIWS. We can talk about the Russian's losing hundreds of tanks and 10's of thousands of troops. but losing the Command ship of a fleet, and a powerful warship like that is huge.






https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=1616a2d675e5

[Firebot]

Apparently Ukraine did a test run the day before of the tactics against a smaller ship to see how Russians reacted to the drones (hint they had tunnel vision).

This is the video from the Russian perspective. Yes, Russian. They really posted their reaction to a drone as a propaganda video on Telegram.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1514138241829642245

Ukraine used this info to do the attacks on the Moskva using the drone as a diversion and it worked beautifully.


If you want to see russian military propaganda videos...prepare to have your eyes and ears bleed, do not go on this link unless you have morbid curiosity. There is a reason why Russians have a twisted view of the war, it's a totally different reality (like bizzaro world)

https://t.me/s/milinfolive/80945

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I wonder how much a ship like that is worth in dollars.

Really hard to say how much it would cost now to rebuild and replace since all these systems were designed and built during the Soviet era. You could compare current similar nuclear ballistic submarine costs and kinda scale it against similar US cruisers. Might be a really bad way to calculate that tho since that would assume Russians still had any of the tooling to rebuild a ship like that and didn't have to start from scratch.

Comparing two in production nuclear ballistic missile subs. The Borei class cost the Russian government roughly $750M per sub, against the equivalent US Ohio class cost of ~$2.5-3B per sub in current dollars. In production US destroyers cost about $2B each, but the Russian ship displaces 20% more, so I'd guess a cruiser like the Moskva would cost somewhere between $600-750M. Russia might just choose to refloat and rebuild the ship. Though with a potential Russian default I doubt they'd have any money for either.

[btimbit]

In another interesting twist, the 6th class of that ship remains in Ukraine, unfinished. It was just launched right before the Soviet Union fell, then has sat unfinished in the Mykolaiv harbor since then. Russia tried to get it back a few times since then to finish it, but Ukraine wanted to sell it, Russia wanted them to just give it for free. Has still sat there since

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Really hard to say how much it would cost now to rebuild and replace since all these systems were designed and built during the Soviet era. You could compare current similar nuclear ballistic submarine costs and kinda scale it against similar US cruisers. Might be a really bad way to calculate that tho since that would assume Russians still had any of the tooling to rebuild a ship like that and didn't have to start from scratch.

Comparing two in production nuclear ballistic missile subs. The Borei class cost the Russian government roughly $750M per sub, against the equivalent US Ohio class cost of ~$2.5-3B per sub in current dollars. In production US destroyers cost about $2B each, but the Russian ship displaces 20% more, so I'd guess a cruiser like the Moskva would cost somewhere between $600-750M. Russia might just choose to refloat and rebuild the ship. Though with a potential Russian default I doubt they'd have any money for that.

The Moskva went through a mid life extension. Its likely that its classed as a billion dollar ship at this point. A cruiser like Moskva is heavier, and more heavily armed then a destroyer. For example the Moskva carries 16 long range anti ship missiles, 64 surface to air missiles, 40 short range SAMS, a multipurpose gun and close in weapons systems torpedo mounts and usually carries at least one anti-submarine helicopter. it has a crew compliment of 500, and displaces around 13000 tonnes.



The Sovremenny class guided missile destroyer as an example carries 8 sun burn anti-ship missiles, 48 sams, 2 multipurpose guns a torpedo mount and carries a anti-submarine helicopter. It has a smaller compliment of 350. It displaces about 800 tonnes.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by btimbit

In another interesting twist, the 6th class of that ship remains in Ukraine, unfinished. It was just launched right before the Soviet Union fell, then has sat unfinished in the Mykolaiv harbor since then. Russia tried to get it back a few times since then to finish it, but Ukraine wanted to sell it, Russia wanted them to just give it for free. Has still sat there since

Ukraine should just finish and sail it around the Black Sea as an F-U to Russia. EU can fund it by liquidating a few Oligarch's super yachts.

[chemgear]

Special Underwater Operation.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Russian MOD have confirmed massive explosians on Moskva and that the crew have been evacuated (ie the ship is unsaveable) they have claimed it was due to an ammunition fire!!!

Technically correct, it was an ammunition fire started by a Ukrainian missile.

[FlameOn]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1514394568405438467

[Firebot]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1514416695984726020

40 years of service, and fallen by an ammunition fire on a special training operation.

Salut

I am pretty sure this is the first modern era cruiser to be blown up in wartime. You have to go back to the Falkland wars where Argentina lost a WWII vintage cruiser, and the last Russia cruiser loss was in 1941.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The Moskva went through a mid life extension. Its likely that its classed as a billion dollar ship at this point. A cruiser like Moskva is heavier, and more heavily armed then a destroyer. For example the Moskva carries 16 long range anti ship missiles, 64 surface to air missiles, 40 short range SAMS, a multipurpose gun and close in weapons systems torpedo mounts and usually carries at least one anti-submarine helicopter. it has a crew compliment of 500, and displaces around 13000 tonnes.

The Sovremenny class guided missile destroyer as an example carries 8 sun burn anti-ship missiles, 48 sams, 2 multipurpose guns a torpedo mount and carries a anti-submarine helicopter. It has a smaller compliment of 350. It displaces about 800 tonnes.

Yea you're right, Russians would probably replace with the Lider-class which would probably cost $1.2B each.

[Hack&Lube]

Moskva is Russian for Moscow... so they literally sank the namesake of Russia's capitol.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Moskva is Russian for Moscow... so they literally sank the namesake of Russia's capitol.

Interestingly enough, it was built in Ukraine in 1979 and originally named Slava (glory) as in Ukranians battlecry "Slava Ukraine" (glory to Ukraine)

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by SebC

Technically correct, it was an ammunition fire started by a Ukrainian missile.

Russian media also report "serious damage", but don't say it has sunk.