Russia invades Ukraine

[Monahammer]

I have no problem calling for the death of all Russian soldiers in Ukraine. I do get squeamish when people start advocating for indiscriminate firebombing ANY population. Let's just try to stop short of that.

[icarus]

This detailed Human Rights Watch report of sickening abuses includes an account from the basement of a school in the Kharkiv region. I hope it's not the same school as in HW's account, but given how widespread and systemic these war crimes are I suppose it could just very well be another one.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/...ntrolled-areas

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I would call that propaganda. On the wests side of things.

Why would Russian troops lay mines like that? Wide open and easy to see. Maybe to lure them around such an obvious death trap to the mines deployed to the side.

Makes no sense at all. Yes if one vehicle rolls over them 15 mines explode to take out one vehicle. Total waste of exposives. Again makes no sense!

This is like seeing a couch on Deerfoot. I go around. Again that is probably the plan. Propaganda aint it great!

Russian troop have radiation poisoning but the Ukrainian workers appear to be ammune?

More propaganda.

I do not know what to believe in this war.

I am 100 percent on the Ukraine side of things with one exception. They had a choice to join Nato but refused too. Now they beg and plead for weapons.

Hard to support a country that does not support our values.

Without nato this war would be over.

right here.
This is what I keep asking you to explain.
You say it's hard to support a country that does not support our values.

This seems to say you don't support the Ukraine as they don't support our values. it's your words.

So again. what are "our values" that they don't support, that makes it hard for you to support the Ukraine ?

Can't be NATO, as NATO membership isn't a "value", and it's not like Canada has kept all it's requirements of membership.

[Plett25]

The war crimes committed by Putin and Russia are not an aberration. They are raping, murdering, torturing and pillaging in Ukraine just like they did under Yeltsin, Stalin and the Tsars. This is standard operating procedure for the Russian military.

Who is to blame? Where do we draw the line?

Putin doesn't give every order. That's the officer corps. He doesn't pull the trigger. That's the enlisted soldiers. Russian war crimes have been documented going back centuries.

The only constant is the Russian people. Russian society keeps gifting war criminals to the world. For centuries, from the Tsars to the Soviets to modern day Russia.

There's a reason that Russia is the biggest country on earth. It grew to that size as the Russian Empire. They didn't grow by nicely convincing neighbouring peoples to join. They invaded and took over.

Russia is Europe's last empire. The British Empire is gone. Same for the Spanish and French empires.

When we look back at the British "civilizing the savages" of Africa, Asia and the Americas. We now see it for what is was: racist, greedy, evil and brutal. Canada is a product of the brutal endeavour and Canadians are still coming to terms with British North America's legacy of colonialism.

But Russia's empire still exists, and Putin's war in Ukraine is an effort to rebuild the empire back to the fullest extent. Today's army of the Russian empire of today still rapes, murders, tortures and pillages just like they did decades and centuries ago. The Russian people haven't come to terms with their brutal, imperialistic past. Instead, they still celebrate it as evidenced by their support of the war in Ukraine.

Russia of today is equivalent to the worst of colonial Britain, France or Spain. It is a murderous kleptocratic dictatorship today as it always has been. The Russian people are sheep who cheer for their murderous leaders and their barbaric war crimes. The "good" Russians bite their tongue, look the other way and emigrate from Russia.

There are a very few brave Russians protesting their country's brutality. Tens of thousands out of a population of 140 million. I think so few that they serve as the exceptions that prove the rule.

Russia is undeniably a bad actor on the world stage. The Russian people are fully complicit.

I think Russia and the Russian people should be completely cut off from the Western world's economy and technology. I think every country should have to choose between trading with the EU and the USA or Russia. If in a few decades, Russia becomes a nation under the rule of law, we should consider a rapprochement.

But until then, leave Russia to the Russians. Not one NATO toe inside Russia's borders but also not one Western dime into their economy and not one microchip into their war machine. No Russians competing in the Olympics or playing in the NHL or studying at Harvard or coding at Google. Send them all back.

Once they fix their own society, they can once again have the privilege of participating in ours.

[Geraldsh]

The idea of locking Russia in sounds good at first - but people locked into an abhorrent environment may come out leaner and meaner and fighting mad.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Lol
Don’t take yourself to seriously.

LOL


Indeed

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Plett25

The war crimes committed by Putin and Russia are not an aberration. They are raping, murdering, torturing and pillaging in Ukraine just like they did under Yeltsin, Stalin and the Tsars. This is standard operating procedure for the Russian military.

Who is to blame? Where do we draw the line?

Putin doesn't give every order. That's the officer corps. He doesn't pull the trigger. That's the enlisted soldiers. Russian war crimes have been documented going back centuries.

The only constant is the Russian people. Russian society keeps gifting war criminals to the world. For centuries, from the Tsars to the Soviets to modern day Russia.

There's a reason that Russia is the biggest country on earth. It grew to that size as the Russian Empire. They didn't grow by nicely convincing neighbouring peoples to join. They invaded and took over.

Russia is Europe's last empire. The British Empire is gone. Same for the Spanish and French empires.

When we look back at the British "civilizing the savages" of Africa, Asia and the Americas. We now see it for what is was: racist, greedy, evil and brutal. Canada is a product of the brutal endeavour and Canadians are still coming to terms with British North America's legacy of colonialism.

But Russia's empire still exists, and Putin's war in Ukraine is an effort to rebuild the empire back to the fullest extent. Today's army of the Russian empire of today still rapes, murders, tortures and pillages just like they did decades and centuries ago. The Russian people haven't come to terms with their brutal, imperialistic past. Instead, they still celebrate it as evidenced by their support of the war in Ukraine.

Russia of today is equivalent to the worst of colonial Britain, France or Spain. It is a murderous kleptocratic dictatorship today as it always has been. The Russian people are sheep who cheer for their murderous leaders and their barbaric war crimes. The "good" Russians bite their tongue, look the other way and emigrate from Russia.

There are a very few brave Russians protesting their country's brutality. Tens of thousands out of a population of 140 million. I think so few that they serve as the exceptions that prove the rule.

Russia is undeniably a bad actor on the world stage. The Russian people are fully complicit.

I think Russia and the Russian people should be completely cut off from the Western world's economy and technology. I think every country should have to choose between trading with the EU and the USA or Russia. If in a few decades, Russia becomes a nation under the rule of law, we should consider a rapprochement.

But until then, leave Russia to the Russians. Not one NATO toe inside Russia's borders but also not one Western dime into their economy and not one microchip into their war machine. No Russians competing in the Olympics or playing in the NHL or studying at Harvard or coding at Google. Send them all back.

Once they fix their own society, they can once again have the privilege of participating in ours.

Yikes... xenophobic much? Bad take.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by icarus

This detailed Human Rights Watch report of sickening abuses includes an account from the basement of a school in the Kharkiv region. I hope it's not the same school as in HW's account, but given how widespread and systemic these war crimes are I suppose it could just very well be another one.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/...ntrolled-areas

What a depressing and brutal article. Was hard to read that. Suffice to say, it lines up exactly with what we know is happening in not only my in-laws village, but elsewhere as well. The Telegram chats my wife follows all have similar storylines. Very clearly this isn't a one-off situation. These are orders from above to perform these heinous acts.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

The idea of locking Russia in sounds good at first - but people locked into an abhorrent environment may come out leaner and meaner and fighting mad.

You eventually get a monstrous barbarian empire with 5000 nuclear arms, pulling the blackmail card whenever they can.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Yikes... xenophobic much? Bad take.

I suppose it is but there are increasingly more similarities to what’s happening in Ukraine to what happened in WW2 and nazi Germany. Reports of the war crimes being committed by third party observers and organizations require a firm hand. If that firm hand results some prejudice to all Russians then that’s something I feel could be tolerated for the time being.

[Duruss]

I posted a poignant M*A*S*H quote about innocent bystanders, and I have to say if you participate in a war crime you can't be seen as a innocent anymore. Just following orders is a lie, hope they catch a bullet.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Yikes... xenophobic much? Bad take.

That's the kind of hot take response I expected.

It'll take more than 4 words, but why don't you lay out your argument that Russia isn't a murderous Empire that has engaged in barbarity for centuries.

The West has engaged with Russia for decades with the hope that Russia would eventually reciprocate in good faith. That's why Germany became so dependent on Russia's energy industry. The Germans thought the EU model would work with Russia. The EU model being if you trade with and become economically dependent on each other, you won't go to war because it's bad for business.

War, rape, executions and torture in Ukraine is Russia's response. They have shown us who they are. It is time to believe them.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

What a depressing and brutal article. Was hard to read that. Suffice to say, it lines up exactly with what we know is happening in not only my in-laws village, but elsewhere as well. The Telegram chats my wife follows all have similar storylines. Very clearly this isn't a one-off situation. These are orders from above to perform these heinous acts.

Not necessarily.

It's quite enough if nothing is done to control the troops. Among tens of thousands of young men there would be some murderers and rapists at the best of times. Give them weapons and power to do what they want and no oversight, and add in the inhumanity of war which in itself can turn even normal men into beasts, the frustration of war going badly where you watch your friends die on a daily basis, where you have to rob people to feed yourself and keep warm...

It would have been a miracle honestly if this stuff didn't happen, considering the way the war has been going and the general inhumanity of the Russian military towards even their own forces. In these conditions, with no oversight, all it takes is one bad officer to turn the random inhumanity into organized mass executions in that area.

At some point we will start to get stories about what happens when the Ukrainians get their hands on civilians they see as traitors. There's going to be some really ugly stories there too, and we can just hope the Ukrainian forces can mostly keep their heads when witnessing this stuff. If you think the news is bad, just imagine what it's like for the troops on location.

It takes a lot of discipline to keep troops from taking their anger out on easy targets.

This war is emotionally very similar to a civil war, and those are always the ugliest wars.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Plett25

That's the kind of hot take response I expected.

It'll take more than 4 words, but why don't you lay out your argument that Russia isn't a murderous Empire that has engaged in barbarity for centuries.

The West has engaged with Russia for decades with the hope that Russia would eventually reciprocate in good faith. That's why Germany became so dependent on Russia's energy industry. The Germans thought the EU model would work with Russia. The EU model being if you trade with and become economically dependent on each other, you won't go to war because it's bad for business.

War, rape, executions and torture in Ukraine is Russia's response. They have shown us who they are. It is time to believe them.

Not worthy of an argument. Maybe you wrote out of anger, or frustration. Whatever the case is, hopefully with time you can reflect on that and look at the idea of condemning 139+ million people with fresh eyes and see the problems with that position.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Not worthy of an argument. Maybe you wrote out of anger, or frustration. Whatever the case is, hopefully with time you can reflect on that and look at the idea of condemning 139+ million people with fresh eyes and see the problems with that position.

It seems like something stinks in Russia. This obviously isn't every Russian, but there's enough evidence of widespread xenophobia there.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1510680782376951808

https://twitter.com/user/status/1510607915731886085

[White Out 403]

#### Russia.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

It seems like something stinks in Russia. This obviously isn't every Russian, but there's enough evidence of widespread xenophobia there.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1510680782376951808

https://twitter.com/user/status/1510607915731886085

This is so toxic and sad.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Not worthy of an argument. Maybe you wrote out of anger, or frustration. Whatever the case is, hopefully with time you can reflect on that and look at the idea of condemning 139+ million people with fresh eyes and see the problems with that position.

So you've got nothing. Interesting.

Are you really located in Shanghai? If so, that's also really interesting.

What are your thoughts about China's treatment of the Uyghers?

Do you accuse your Chinese neighbors of xenophobia or genocide? Or do you only do that kind of thing in the safe confines of an anonymous message board?

[Cheese]

The Allied forces repulsed 51 enemy attacks this week, destroying 46 tanks, 92 armored and 87 vehicles, 27 artillery systems, 10 drones, 4 aircraft and an enemy cruise missile

[Cheese]

Quite the list of destroyed and captured equipment.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...pment.html?m=1