Came across an article today on the Ukrainian view of Russians, and from those interviewed, it seems like more and more they are no longer just blame Putin himself for the war, but the Russian people themselves. The argument goes that Putin is a symptom of the Russian anger and you cannot decouple Putin and the Russian people from the Ukrainian invasion given Putin's recent polling. Russians made a deal with the devil having been so traumatized by the disaster of the post-Soviet economic collapse that they accepted a despot and willingly enabled more than two decades of aggression against Chechnya, Georgia, and Ukraine. They do have a point but I wonder if it goes further back than that. Russians have had leaders that were horrible for more than a thousand years after all.
Another interesting tidbit from that article is the Ukrainian identity and relationship with Russia has been completely destroyed since the Russian invasion, not that this is horribly surprising.
I was on another forum and read that apparently there is a movement among some Ukrainians to abandon the Orthodox religion and the Cyrillic alphabet to further sever cultural ties to Russia. I doubt that it is a majority at this point, but it will be interesting to see if it gains any steam.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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The #### coming out of Bucha today is infuriating. Videos of people driving through streets and dead civilians everywhere. A bunch of them executed. People killed with their hands tied up. Mined bodies, mined roads.
Spoiler for horror. Don't click if you don't want to see bodies.
really? not good with multi quoting but you had a rant about the Ukraine and NATO which gave the impression you feel some blame should be on Ukraine.
you can even take the time to let us know what values we have that the Ukraine doesn't support.
this is from you:
"I do not know what to believe in this war.
I am 100 percent on the Ukraine side of things with one exception. They had a choice to join Nato but refused too. Now they beg and plead for weapons.
Hard to support a country that does not support our values.
Without nato this war would be over."
So what is your question? Do I have to multi quote what is your question?
So apparently Russian's ran out of guided munitions for the Ukrainian war because a lot of the parts for their weapons are actually built in Ukrainian factories, which will no longer sell to them. Some 4D chess level planning right there. lol
Wouldn't surprise me if those mobile crematoria we saw prior to the invasion were intended to conceal ethnic cleansing or extrajudicial killings of Ukrainian intelligentsia. There were reports of killing squads imbedded with the Kyiv invasion axis and capture/kill lists of Ukrainian nationals, likely politicians, activists, media types.
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This, mass executions in towns around Kiev, ongoing war crimes in the East, anyone that still has sympathy for dead Russian soldiers can #### off now. They're nothing more than fascist murderers, I hope Ukraine kills them all
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As much as I’d like to believe that, the Telegraph is basically a tabloid sh*t rag.
They aren't wrong in this case, the KH-55 cruise missiles Russia is using mounts engines manufactured by Moto Sich out of their Zaporizhzhia Engine Engineering Factory.
Quote:
It is powered by a single 400 kgf Ukrainian-made, Motor Sich JSC R95-300 turbofan engine, with pop-out wings for cruising efficiency. It can be launched from both high and low altitudes, and flies at subsonic speeds at low levels (under 110 m/300 ft altitude). After launch, the missile's folded wings, tail surfaces and engine deploy. It is guided through a combination of an inertial guidance system plus a terrain contour-matching guidance system which uses radar and images stored in the memory of an onboard computer to find its target. This allows the missile to guide itself to the target with a high degree of accuracy.
MOD updates for the day. Map updates now shows the withdraw of the Central and Eastern MD grouping elements out of Ukraine for redeployment to Donbass while the Western MD grouping just pivoted eastward. Russian retreat and Ukrainian advances have pushed all Russian forces out of the areas North and North West of Kyiv all the way to the Belarus border. With the Ukrainian's retaking a number of towns, the extent of Russian war crimes, looting, and civilian executions are just starting to come to light. Russians are still unable to gain air superiority. https://twitter.com/user/status/1510203444547756036 https://twitter.com/user/status/1510372225391730688
The #### coming out of Bucha today is infuriating. Videos of people driving through streets and dead civilians everywhere. A bunch of them executed. People killed with their hands tied up. Mined bodies, mined roads.
Spoiler for horror. Don't click if you don't want to see bodies.
The #### coming out of Bucha today is infuriating. Videos of people driving through streets and dead civilians everywhere. A bunch of them executed. People killed with their hands tied up. Mined bodies, mined roads.
Spoiler for horror. Don't click if you don't want to see bodies.
It sounds like they killed every male between 18-60 in Bucha before pulling out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samonadreau
What in the actual ####
Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother
What a ####ing dark part of the world.
Honestly, this is the tip of iceberg that has been "fortunate" enough to make the mainstream media. I have seen more mangled corpses, gory scenes and headless charred bodies this week than I ever expected to see in my life. Some of the regional Ukrainian telegram channels my wife follows is pure unfiltered gore that is probably fortunate enough to not end up on news sites or Reddit. Not going to describe the content as I'm sure we can all guess.
We saw a post a couple days ago from a young man in my in-laws village. He was one of the few people bringing aid from Kharkiv to areas north towards the border. He got detained by Russian soldiers, kidnapped and tortured for 3 days in the basement of the freakin' high school my wife attended. For 3 days this guy got tortured and maimed before he was able to escape. I thought about posting his images he posted after his escape here, but it's way too brutal that I can't even go back and look at them again. The high school my wife attended is being used a torture warehouse in a pathetic attempt to get information from innocent civilians. Unbelievable and infuriating.
That is what those "tricked" Russian soldiers are doing all over not only my in-laws village, but every location they occupy. They are going door to door and kidnapping people, taking them to a location and torturing them for days if they don't give them information on UA troop movements. My wife is scared ####less that her step-dad is next if/when soldiers come to their home.
Let's just say that anybody who still feels any ounce of remorse for those PoOr RuSsIan SoLdIeRs who were tricked into going, anybody who feels that way deserves a slap in the mouth. This is beyond soldiers being tricked and pranked into going into a country. They ALL are well aware of what is going on and they ALL, every one of them, have marching orders to kill, maim, rape and pillage their way through. FFS, they are leaving landmines everywhere as they retreat. Who the #### does inhuman stuff like that? Seems the Russian army has it built into them to be as big a POS as possible.
Last edited by Huntingwhale; 04-03-2022 at 05:04 AM.
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Honestly, this is the tip of iceberg that has been "fortunate" enough to make the mainstream media. I have seen more mangled corpses, gory scenes and headless charred bodies this week than I ever expected to see in my life. Some of the regional Ukrainian telegram channels my wife follows is pure unfiltered gore that is probably fortunate enough to not end up on news sites or Reddit. Not going to describe the content as I'm sure we can all guess.
We saw a post a couple days ago from a young man in my in-laws village. He was one of the few people bringing aid from Kharkiv to areas north towards the border. He got detained by Russian soldiers, kidnapped and tortured for 3 days in the basement of the freakin' high school my wife attended. For 3 days this guy got tortured and maimed before he was able to escape. I thought about posting his images he posted after his escape here, but it's way too brutal that I can't even go back and look at them again. The high school my wife attended is being used a torture warehouse in a pathetic attempt to get information from innocent civilians. Unbelievable and infuriating.
That is what those "tricked" Russian soldiers are doing all over not only my in-laws village, but every location they occupy. They are going door to door and kidnapping people, taking them to a location and torturing them for days if they don't give them information on UA troop movements. My wife is scared ####less that her step-dad is next if/when soldiers come to their home.
Let's just say that anybody who still feels any ounce of remorse for those PoOr RuSsIan SoLdIeRs who were tricked into going, anybody who feels that way deserves a slap in the mouth. This is beyond soldiers being tricked and pranked into going into a country. They ALL are well aware of what is going on and they ALL, every one of them, have marching orders to kill, maim, rape and pillage their way through. FFS, they are leaving landmines everywhere as they retreat. Who the #### does inhuman stuff like that? Seems the Russian army has it built into them to be as big a POS as possible.
This isn't a surprise unfortunately. While I do think conditions and leadership make men into what they are, the reality is that the young men serving in Russian uniform right now have been brought up with propaganda and constantly being pushed by their superiors to ignore any thoughts that aren't fed to them from the above.
The Red Army during WW2 was famously inhumane towards both civilians and opposing POW:s. Unlike in the west where criticizing the military and their actions/use is a somewhat constant topic of discussion (mostly poor quality and insufficient discussion but still), outside of a few years in the nineties, there has never really been a time when the warcrimes of Russian armies or the unnecessarily inhumane way they treat their own soldiers has been accepted as a topic of discussion inside Russia.
Moments like these should work to remind the jingoist conservatives why it's necessary that schools teach everyone about the dark side of their own history. Otherwise you can grow generations of young soldiers who believe that anything they do in service of their country is automatically the right thing, and anyone opposing them is bad people.
At which point just doing whatever to the other side starts to kind of make sense.
Last edited by Itse; 04-03-2022 at 05:48 AM.
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