Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I think Sutter in this case was 100% truthful. I think he even said something along the lines is he doesn't prefer vets, and all the youth has to do is take the spot away from the vet and they get the ice time. And that isn't because he likes old vs. young, it's because the vets tend to do what Sutter would consider the foundational required to succeed better more consistently.

Fans on the other hand tend to look at the other way, where the bottom 6 vet should need to un-seed a younger player. I think that's because we mostly overvalue upside and potential over the foundational things. One, for starters, it's hard to simply observe some of the foundational things a vet does better when watching a game, vs. observing the higher end talent and potential a young player brings to the table.

Lewis and Dube this year is the perfect use case. Lewis is not an amazing player, and we all can see what his upside / ceiling is. It's certainly a lot lower than Dube. Said another way, Dube's best game, is visibly better than Lewis'. But Lewis does all the little things (Sutter would call it play the right way, defensive and checking mindset) more consistently than Dube night in night out. For Sutter, and it's hard to argue with his results, offensive comes after you do the responsible stuff first, so he favors those that do that, which tends to be the vets because he knows the results for the team will be better. All we see as the average fan is that Dube creates more sometime than Lewis, and we mistakenly think all else is equal, so why not Dube over Lewis.

Sutter has given every younger player who has successfully started with responsibility with the ice time they deserve, and when that happens they un-seat the vets. Maybe you are right, it might be it just takes time to physically develop, but I actually think has more to do with learning how to play right, that takes time. We've even seen how many of our best players have had to learn that this year, and what a difference that has made.

Yeah I don’t dispute most of what you said, I’m of the same opinion for the most part. I just think Darryl made up his mind even before the season started. He probably asked for Lewis, Richardson, Pitlick, Gudbranson, Zadarov and etc. Basically, a ton of one year deals for vets who can bridge the gap between the young guys who he deemed not to be “ready” yet at least in his mind.

I don’t know what Darryl really thinks. But I’m in agreement. I remember when Darryl said Gio was the team’s best overall defenseman which is exactly what I thought as well. I also remember when Geoff Ward also had Dube up on the top line with Lindholm and Tkachuk last season which I hated pretty much from game 1 and I also wasn’t too crazy about Valimaki either. His skating and footwork bugs me. I do believe there was a kind of youth entitlement with this organization as Darryl put it. Whatever Darryl does, I generally agree with, so I have no problem with his decisions. I’m also not agist, if Darryl played a 40 year old over a 25 year old, I have no problem with that either. If you can play, then you can play.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

What’s the premium to sign in CGY rather than TBL? 10%? 15%?

Zero, unless Tampa Bay actually makes an offer. I'll be gobsmacked if they can put themselves in the market to add an eight-figure UFA contract this summer.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Zero, unless Tampa Bay actually makes an offer. I'll be gobsmacked if they can put themselves in the market to add an eight-figure UFA contract this summer.

...was moreso just a comparison of the markets. Tampa Vs. Calgary. There is a premium to be paid for playing in a less desirable climate/market.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

...was moreso just a comparison of the markets. Tampa Vs. Calgary. There is a premium to be paid for playing in a less desirable climate/market.

I wonder how that changes between a UFA signing somewhere "less desirable", and a player re-signing somewhere "less desirable", when they've spent their entire career playing there.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No it wouldn't. If he retires, his salary, and his cap hit, disappear.

Only if he retires prior to July 1.

Once the SB is paid it counts against the season cap.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Only if he retires prior to July 1.

Once the SB is paid it counts against the season cap.

Is this correct? My understanding was that so long as it is not a 35+ contract, the moment a player retires the cap-hit is gone.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Is this correct? My understanding was that so long as it is not a 35+ contract, the moment a player retires the cap-hit is gone.

The salary disappears, the signing bonus counts as it is part of the players share of HRR......there was an article a couple years back in regards to some of the contracts that were including this.

At least that is how i remember it.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Is this correct? My understanding was that so long as it is not a 35+ contract, the moment a player retires the cap-hit is gone.

Not for any money already paid to the player. Only unpaid amounts are gone.

Look at it this way. If a player had a cap hit of $10M, all paid from a bonus on July 1, would it be fair for him to retire on July 2, keep the $10M ,and have the cap hit for that year not count.

General rule: if money is paid, it counts against the cap. Otherwise all contracts would be structured with the last year like this.

[Roof-Daddy]

Aaaah, so he'll just have to unofficially LTIRetire then.

Honestly wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that happened.

[GioforPM]

I think retirement is a fantasy. Lucic is showing no signs that he is bored, hurt, tired or anything else you usually see before retirement. If he starts looking like it’s no fun, if he starts turning down fights, then maybe.

[Erick Estrada]

As long as Lucic's body isn't beat up it would be foolish to retire and leave $4 million on the table as he knows he's never going to see that kind of money again. He will play out the contract and either decide to retire or play for a reduced salary for another team.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think retirement is a fantasy. Lucic is showing no signs that he is bored, hurt, tired or anything else you usually see before retirement. If he starts looking like it’s no fun, if he starts turning down fights, then maybe.

The signs he is however showing is that he the game is passing him by. I'd argue he has easily been the worst player on this team for months on end now. His last 20 games specifically have to be the worst of his career.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

The signs he is however showing is that he the game is passing him by. I'd argue he has easily been the worst player on this team for months on end now. His last 20 games specifically have to be the worst of his career.

Yeah, but that has little to do with it. That's an argument to buy him out, not for him to retire.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, but that has little to do with it. That's an argument to buy him out, not for him to retire.

This is an extremely proud guy. He almost retired two years ago because he felt like he didn't have a role anymore. If he becomes a healthy scratch moving forward he may very well call it quits, although I do agree that's more wishful thinking than anything.

[CalgaryFan1988]

The thing with Lucic, even if he isn't playing the best at the moment he still brings an element to his game that the Flames need. Flames have enough scoring power, they need someone that can hit and fight and Lucic fits the bill.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

The thing with Lucic, even if he isn't playing the best at the moment he still brings an element to his game that the Flames need. Flames have enough scoring power, they need someone that can hit and fight and Lucic fits the bill.

I think loooch getting some days off to prepare for the playoffs is necessary. Right now he just looks gassed by the 3rd period.

They can chuck Ritchie in for 3 or 4 in a row to replace the toughness.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think retirement is a fantasy. Lucic is showing no signs that he is bored, hurt, tired or anything else you usually see before retirement. If he starts looking like it’s no fun, if he starts turning down fights, then maybe.

I agree it's a fantasy at this point, but did Lucic not say he was contemplating retirement prior to being freed from the prison that is Edmonton?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I think loooch getting some days off to prepare for the playoffs is necessary. Right now he just looks gassed by the 3rd period.

They can chuck Ritchie in for 3 or 4 in a row to replace the toughness.

Agreed, I was speaking more towards his playoff usefulness vs buyout. I think Lucic needs to sit a few.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I agree it's a fantasy at this point, but did Lucic not say he was contemplating retirement prior to being freed from the prison that is Edmonton?

That was when Peters was coach though. I think he loves playing under Sutter and that motivates him to keep going.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Inferno

That was when Peters was coach though. I think he loves playing under Sutter and that motivates him to keep going.

Peters coached Edmonton???