[Trade] Brandon Hagel + 2x4ths to TBL for Boris Katchouk, Taylor Raddysh, 2023 1st, 2024 1st

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Unlikely, with his premium ice time going down.

He's only 23, and not close to his prime-he'll get better with more experience. Plus, he's on a team that breeds winners, and his PP points will go up too-only 6 of his points this year have come on the PP.

People are saying a lot of his success comes from playing with Kane, but from what I've read (and correct me if I'm wrong) he's been with Dach and Toews recently, as the line of Kane-Strome-DeBrincat has been having success....

[Enoch Root]

wrong thread

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by Sandman

People are saying a lot of his success comes from playing with Kane, but from what I've read (and correct me if I'm wrong) he's been with Dach and Toews recently, as the line of Kane-Strome-DeBrincat has been having success....

This is correct, Hagel has been doing the board work to get Toews back on track. Kubalik has been demoted to Carpenter's grinder line, but, that line has been doing ok lately. Kubalik has been snakebit, though.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Well at least this makes the Chiarot trade NOT the worst trade this week. What a stupid overpayment for a middle six winger. Glad it happened to Tampa.

Until they take their annual huge payment for middle six player and win another cup in their window.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

The issue is undervaluing 1st round picks. What you hope is that you draft and develop your OWN relentless 50 point guy for under 2 million, and for a lot longer than a couple of years. By giving away 2 young prospects who could easily achieve that level, as well as 2 1st round picks, they're giving away those odds of developing that type of player that could easily be found in a 1 in 4 chance. My bet is that Chicago gets 2-3 players that fill the void left by Hagel easily with this trade.

It's a bad trade by a team desperate to stay relevant in the East with the emergence of the Hurricanes and Panthers.

Desperate to stay relevant is definitely not how I would describe the current, two time defending Stanley Cup Champions paying the price to load up for another run in their window, lol. That's bonkers.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

The issue is undervaluing 1st round picks. What you hope is that you draft and develop your OWN relentless 50 point guy for under 2 million, and for a lot longer than a couple of years. By giving away 2 young prospects who could easily achieve that level, as well as 2 1st round picks, they're giving away those odds of developing that type of player that could easily be found in a 1 in 4 chance. My bet is that Chicago gets 2-3 players that fill the void left by Hagel easily with this trade.

It's a bad trade by a team desperate to stay relevant in the East with the emergence of the Hurricanes and Panthers.

Desperate to stay relevant? Lol they are back to back cup champs and gunning for a third.

Their window is now. A prospect just making the NHL 4 years from now doesn’t do them any good. People thought the Goodrow trade was bad too.

Florida just gave up almost as much for a bottom rotation defenseman who is also a pending UFA.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by bax

Desperate to stay relevant? Lol they are back to back cup champs and gunning for a third.

Their window is now. A prospect just making the NHL 4 years from now doesn’t do them any good. People thought the Goodrow trade was bad too.

Florida just gave up almost as much for a bottom rotation defenseman who is also a pending UFA.

Yep, this is the same formula they've previously used to win cups in recent years. No surprises here. They load up on draft picks where they can, while letting expensive UFA's walk.

The caveat is that they use some of those draft picks to overpay for depth players to strengthen their line-up for the playoff run. They did it before, this is them doing it now.

You don't hang on to all your picks to get players that will help you when your window closes (that's something that only fans seem to want for their teams), you push chips in. That's what they do.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Sandman

He's only 23, and not close to his prime-he'll get better with more experience. Plus, he's on a team that breeds winners, and his PP points will go up too-only 6 of his points this year have come on the PP.

People are saying a lot of his success comes from playing with Kane, but from what I've read (and correct me if I'm wrong) he's been with Dach and Toews recently, as the line of Kane-Strome-DeBrincat has been having success....

I like the player, but I don’t see him playing the PP on Tampa. He didn’t get much PP time in Chicago and I assume their roster was weaker that Tampa’s.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Desperate to stay relevant is definitely not how I would describe the current, two time defending Stanley Cup Champions paying the price to load up for another run in their window, lol. That's bonkers.

Look at the standings and the metrics. Both the Hurricanes and Panthers are separating themselves from the pack that includes Tampa, Toronto, and Pittsburgh. Carolina is a much better defensive team and Florida is a much better offensive team. They're still good, but they're not the big scary team they were in season's past.

They have some elite players at forward, defense, and goal, and some good secondary players, but they aren't that deep anymore. Hagel does help fill out the bottom of their roster, but my god, that's a crazy overpayment for a team that I'm not sure will be able to beat both Carolina or Florida in a 7 game series.

Killorn-Stamkos-Kucherov
Palat-Point-Cirelli
Hagel-Colton-Perry
Maroon-Bellemare-Joseph

Hedman-Rutta
Sergachev-Cernak
McDonagh-Bogosian

Vasilevskiy-Elliott

They're still a good team, no doubt, but they've lost a lot of their support pieces in the last year, so they rely on their big guys to win games. Take Hagel out of that lineup and it looks pretty poor, so yeah, it's in an effort to stay relevant with the top teams in the league. I'm not sure this pushes them to that level.

And don't forget, last year's roster was nowhere near cap compliant, so you have to take that into consideration. Plus, they faced the Canadiens in the final which was a bit of a mismatch.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Jesus H Christ why do this? I mean what must the market be like for ACTUAL good players like Chychrun and Miller? I cannot imagine it would have cost that much more than this to get an actual top-end, borderline elite talent instead of a depth guy on a shooting percentage bender.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Jesus H Christ why do this? I mean what must the market be like for ACTUAL good players like Chychrun and Miller? I cannot imagine it would have cost that much more than this to get an actual top-end, borderline elite talent instead of a depth guy on a shooting percentage bender.

The cap on those top end players made the difference. Miller could not have been fitted in next year, assuming he even could this year.

TB was prepared to pay a premium price for a good player they could fit in cap wise. Plus Chicago certainly did not have to move him absent a huge return. There would have been few players with Hager’s skill level with his contract length and AAV.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Look at the standings and the metrics. Both the Hurricanes and Panthers are separating themselves from the pack that includes Tampa, Toronto, and Pittsburgh. Carolina is a much better defensive team and Florida is a much better offensive team. They're still good, but they're not the big scary team they were in season's past.

They have some elite players at forward, defense, and goal, and some good secondary players, but they aren't that deep anymore. Hagel does help fill out the bottom of their roster, but my god, that's a crazy overpayment for a team that I'm not sure will be able to beat both Carolina or Florida in a 7 game series.

Killorn-Stamkos-Kucherov
Palat-Point-Cirelli
Hagel-Colton-Perry
Maroon-Bellemare-Joseph

Hedman-Rutta
Sergachev-Cernak
McDonagh-Bogosian

Vasilevskiy-Elliott

They're still a good team, no doubt, but they've lost a lot of their support pieces in the last year, so they rely on their big guys to win games. Take Hagel out of that lineup and it looks pretty poor, so yeah, it's in an effort to stay relevant with the top teams in the league. I'm not sure this pushes them to that level.

And don't forget, last year's roster was nowhere near cap compliant, so you have to take that into consideration. Plus, they faced the Canadiens in the final which was a bit of a mismatch.

I guess we’ll see come playoff time. In my eyes Tampa is still the clear favorite in the east.

Vasilevskiy over Bobrovsky and Anderson is enough reason for me alone.

Regardless they aren’t trying to stay relevant. Especially not compared to a panthers team that hasn’t won a playoff series in 25 years. Even if they lose round 1 going all in now is still the right move for where their franchise is at.

[powderjunkie]

To me it's choice between chasing perpetual 'very goodness' or shorter term 'greatness'.

The Wings and Penguins maintained a decade+ of very goodness and mange to break through for another ring or two.

Was tihs the best use of those assets? Maybe not, but when you have no cap room and trade protection on all your big tickets I'm not sure what the alternatives are.


Best* Goalie in the world - age 27
Top 5* D-man in the world - age 31
Top 5* Winger in the world - age 28 (allegedly...)
Top 10 Centre - Age 26
*ish

Other than Point, none of these guys are getting any better. More importantly, their bridge deals for Cirelli/Sergachev/Cernak expire next year. Stamkos 8.5 AAV is 2 more years full NMC. McDonagh 6.75M 4 more years full NTC until final year. Both of the latter are still worth every penny, but may not be forever, and their deals may preclude re-signing all of the bridges.

They likely have to trade one of those bridge guys (probably Sergachev?) to recover a lot of these assets. They'll still have Hagel and he'll be RFA at the end of this deal.

[Buff]

I can't get over how much Chicago got for Hagel. They gave up a good player but they completely fleeced Tampa Bay.

Toews was mad too. I saw an interview with him and he couldn't believe Hagel was traded because Hagel he thought that if you're going to rebuild then Hagel is the guy you don't want to trade. True, but look at that return. Highway robbery!

[Wastedyouth]

Shooting 25%.

He's gonna regress. What a bad trade.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Shooting 25%.

He's gonna regress. What a bad trade.

22.3%. And sure, he'll probably regress, but by how much? Should we be worried about Mangiapane's 20.6% over his last 117 games?

I understand the criticism of the trade, but I'd be curious to hear some alternative ideas for TBL to improve this year...

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by powder junkies

22.3%. Should we be worried about Mangiapane's 20.6% over his last 117 games?

Absolutely we should be worried.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Sandman

He's only 23, and not close to his prime-he'll get better with more experience. Plus, he's on a team that breeds winners, and his PP points will go up too-only 6 of his points this year have come on the PP.

People are saying a lot of his success comes from playing with Kane, but from what I've read (and correct me if I'm wrong) he's been with Dach and Toews recently, as the line of Kane-Strome-DeBrincat has been having success....

For the record, Havel had 10:40 of ice time tonight. He’d been getting consistently in the 18-20 minute range with Chicago.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

For the record, Havel had 10:40 of ice time tonight. He’d been getting consistently in the 18-20 minute range with Chicago.

His average TOI this year is 17:28, and you don't really think he'll continue to get 10 minutes of ice-time a game, do you? I don't think they paid that price to bring him to TB, just to give him that kind of treatment...

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Sandman

His average TOI this year is 17:28, and you don't really think he'll continue to get 10 minutes of ice-time a game, do you? I don't think they paid that price to bring him to TB, just to give him that kind of treatment...

He's unlikely to get 17:28 in Tampa. By all accounts, they brought him in because they are trying to build a third line to replace the one they let go last summer. Third-line wingers don't get that kind of ice time.