Can we talk about the cap?

[dino7c]

I worry that Mangiapane wants to be paid like a 40 goal scorer, gets it, and never scores anywhere near 40 again.

Didn't he have like 20 in the first month

[agulati]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I worry that Mangiapane wants to be paid like a 40 goal scorer, gets it, and never scores anywhere near 40 again.

Didn't he have like 20 in the first month

Oct 7 goals in 8 games (7 on the road)
Nov 8 goals in 14 games (7 away, 1 home)
Dec 3 goals in 7 games (3 away)
Jan 1 goal in 11 games (1 away)
Feb 8 goals in 11 games (2 away 6 home)
Mar 2 goals in 3 games (1 away 1 home)


Home 8 goals in 24 games
Away 21 goals in 31 games


Pacific 9 goals in 14 games
Central 3 goals in 13 games
Atlantic 8 goals in 13 games
Metropolitan 9 goals in 14 games

[dino7c]

okay so he had 15 in the first two months and 14 since

Not saying he isn't a really good player but I don't think he will score 35-40 every year, all depends on the number I guess

5M sure
7M no facking way

[agulati]

Originally Posted by dino7c

okay so he had 15 in the first two months and 14 since

Not saying he isn't a really good player but I don't think he will score 35-40 every year, all depends on the number I guess

5M sure
7M no facking way

Agreed. Mangiapane is the player with the smallest track record out of the three. Signing him to a 7 million dollar contract can potentially significantly backfire.

[Bourque's Twin]

Mang can’t justify Tkachuk money as an RFA. Tkachuk was a point per game player. He needs to sign a shorter bridge for high 5’s. If he does that, Gaudreau signs for 10, Tkachuk for 9, and we can trade Monahan and Lucic, the rest of the team should be fine.

[Mathgod]

Eatbread's only bad month was January, but that was the month when the team as a whole was somewhat struggling.

Overall, most goals on the team despite not playing on the top line. 3rd in the entire NHL in 5 on 5 goals/60.

That said, this is his only season (so far) of producing like this. He can likely command $6M, maybe a tiny bit more. Definitely not $7M or anything close.

[ComixZone]

Yeah, I don't think Mangiapane will be signing any sort of bridge deal - and what his agent said earlier this year certainly seems to align with that.

He'll be one year away from UFA and will have a (possible) 40 goal year under his belt while being a very, very good 200 foot hockey player. He's not signing a bridge. He'll sign a 1 year deal and then be able to sign anywhere.

You either sign him to a big term deal, or you don't. There will be no high value bridge deal.

Also, Mangiapane's done nothing but improve and play absolutely excellent 200 foot hockey his entire time in the NHL. If you aren't willing to commit to a homegrown player like that, you aren't doing it right.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I worry that Mangiapane wants to be paid like a 40 goal scorer, gets it, and never scores anywhere near 40 again.

Didn't he have like 20 in the first month

Isn’t the bigger worry that the Flames look for cheaper options and end up with a Troy Brouwer, Mason Raymond or James Neal type acquisition?

I’d rather pay for the known quantity then cheap out for the unknown quantity. Management can cut some of the fat in other areas of the team for a vital piece like Bread.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Isn’t the bigger worry that the Flames look for cheaper options and end up with a Troy Brouwer, Mason Raymond or James Neal type acquisition?

I’d rather pay for the known quantity then cheap out for the unknown quantity. Management can cut some of the fat in other areas of the team for a vital piece like Bread.

Exactly.

Mangiapane is our 4th best forward and is performing at an elite level. He scores, defends, kills penalties like an elite forward. These are the types of players you retain. Spending money on high end players like Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, and Mangiapane is what top teams do.

Worried about it hurting your ability to fill out a roster? It shouldn’t. Your money should be invested in the top parts of your roster, and then the bottom of the roster is where you challenge yourself to find high value utility players.

Pay the good players, and pay to get rid of the overpaid bad players if required.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Isn’t the bigger worry that the Flames look for cheaper options and end up with a Troy Brouwer, Mason Raymond or James Neal type acquisition?

I’d rather pay for the known quantity then cheap out for the unknown quantity. Management can cut some of the fat in other areas of the team for a vital piece like Bread.

a known quantity who's previous career high is 32 points

I would give him a substantial long term deal but I wouldn't want to give him 7M+

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Exactly.

Mangiapane is our 4th best forward and is performing at an elite level. He scores, defends, kills penalties like an elite forward. These are the types of players you retain. Spending money on high end players like Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Lindholm, and Mangiapane is what top teams do.

Worried about it hurting your ability to fill out a roster? It shouldn’t. Your money should be invested in the top parts of your roster, and then the bottom of the roster is where you challenge yourself to find high value utility players.

Pay the good players, and pay to get rid of the overpaid bad players if required.

That’s right and Mangiapane doesn’t even play on the top PP unit. Perhaps one day it could be Bread in the bumper spot where he’d do just fine. He’d probably be a perennial 40-50 goal guy cleaning up around the net. Mangiapane is a core piece to me, no trade list.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by dino7c

a known quantity who's previous career high is 32 points

I would give him a substantial long term deal but I wouldn't want to give him 7M+

is that even fair given that his breakout seasons happen to have fallen during the pandemic years.

Also, he does a lot with the minutes he’s given and he plays tough matchups because he’s paired with Backlund a lot.

I honestly think Mangiapane is just scratching the surface here, with the right usage, I think the sky is the limit for him.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Mang can’t justify Tkachuk money as an RFA. Tkachuk was a point per game player. He needs to sign a shorter bridge for high 5’s. If he does that, Gaudreau signs for 10, Tkachuk for 9, and we can trade Monahan and Lucic, the rest of the team should be fine.

Not really a bridge. He is only one season away from UFA. He can sign a 1 yr and walk.

Moving Lucic & Monahan is going to be costly. Cost the Leafs their 13th overall pick (Jarvis), to move Marleau, and take a $6m cap-hit in season, and pay-out a $3m signing bonus, and another $833k/2 seasons. And Marleau was easy to fit into the Hurricanes 19/20 cap.

So $3.8m in real dollars, a $6m single season cap-hit = Mid First Rounder.
never had the option to actually add Marleau to their roster

Monahan & Lucic are similar. To move them both, we're looking at, at least a 1st rounder. Perhaps a 1st & 2nd. Assets the Flames don't have, and surely may have even less off, if another move is made before the TDL.

Replenishing those assets can be found by moving Hanifin. 1st and 2nd rounders seem like a minimum for him. The finances would work, by simply swapping Monahan's hit for Mangiapane's.

So the outs;
Monahan, Lucic, Hanifin.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

a known quantity who's previous career high is 32 points

I would give him a substantial long term deal but I wouldn't want to give him 7M+

Okay, but that's only looking at part of the picture. Here is his PPG pace and progression through his career:

18/19: 24
19/20: 39
20/21: 47
21/22: 62

Pretty steady and significant progression - hard to look at that and conclude that he is going to significantly revert. I mean, his agent is talking crazy, but he is a solid player. On PP1 he could be a 40 goal guy.

[Strange Brew]

It's a dicey situation. Gaudreau, Mangiapane and Tkachuk are looking at huge paydays based on their play this season. And generally speaking, you get paid based on the regular season and you earn your reputation in the playoffs.

You certainly want to see how they perform in the playoffs this year when looking at how you build the team going forward. I also want an idea of who would be coaching them over their entire contract.

[GioforPM]

Sometimes you can’t keep everyone. And there’s a pecking order to that. Vegas gave up a player with numbers just like Mangiapane to get who they thought would be an elite group line player. And before that they gave up a top D to keep other players. Of course, I’m not sure it worked but that’s a lot to do with injuries and Eichel not blasting out of the gate (shocker).

[Ryan Coke]

We see players drafted high getting multiple chances and opportunities in order to “achieve their potential”, living off their draft position for a long time.

With a guy like Mangiapane, you see the opposite. In spite of impressive progression and numbers, people tend to be skeptical that it’s sustainable purely due to draft position.

If Bennett had put up numbers like this he would have been “finally finding his game”, and we would be wanting to lock him up for top dollar. With Mangiapane there’s the tendency to be suspicious that he can sustain it and to spend the dollars to commit it to him. If he was drafted in the first round, the perspective would be totally different.

It’s draft rank discrimination.

Ultimately, any player can fall off a cliff. But he has done nothing but play hard, tenacious, intelligent, and highly productive hockey since he came into the league.

[Ryan Coke]

I also think his game will translate well in the playoffs.

[CliffFletcher]

I like Mangiapane at $6.5 mil more than Tkachuk at $10 mil.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I like Mangiapane at $6.5 mil more than Tkachuk at $10 mil.

This is where I am at.

Best case is to keep them all, but if we only get 2 of the 3 signed, my preference would be Gaudreau and Mangiapane (depending on costs, obviously)