Dom Hasek calls for contract suspension for every Russian NHL'er

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I agree with you. I'm pretty sure that a country like Cuba didn't feel too secure with it's neighbor when it allowed Russian bases and missiles in it's territory. That's the official excuse(or one of) for the war. That Ukraine wanted to join NATO. It's still an excuse, but I'm pretty sure the US wouldn't allow any Russian weaponry on Canadian soil either.

This post in no way supports Russia, I'm just trying to say that the whole argument is not as black and white as some posters make it out to be. Hell people could bring up Afghanistan, or Kosovo as places Canada helped invade. Again, for good reasons, but the Russian government is giving similar reasons to the reasons given before Kosovo. Again I don't write it in order to support the Russian government(far from it, I hope the Putin is dethroned asap), but I can see how much media sways public perception of wars, and the Russian media is a well oiled machine.

I feel you understand the point I was making better than anyone else. But I agree, too much confrontation already, this will be my last comment on the subject here. Peace brother.

[GioforPM]

It’s not hypocritical for me to criticize Russia when I also, FYI, criticized the US at the time. And even if I hadn’t back then, maybe I learned something in the past 19 years since then.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Active Russian NHL players

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/nati...eer-stats.html

[timbit]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I agree with you. I'm pretty sure that a country like Cuba didn't feel too secure with it's neighbor when it allowed Russian bases and missiles in it's territory. That's the official excuse(or one of) for the war. That Ukraine wanted to join NATO. It's still an excuse, but I'm pretty sure the US wouldn't allow any Russian weaponry on Canadian soil either.

This post in no way supports Russia, I'm just trying to say that the whole argument is not as black and white as some posters make it out to be. Hell people could bring up Afghanistan, or Kosovo as places Canada helped invade. Again, for good reasons, but the Russian government is giving similar reasons to the reasons given before Kosovo. Again I don't write it in order to support the Russian government(far from it, I hope the Putin is dethroned asap), but I can see how much media sways public perception of wars, and the Russian media is a well oiled machine.

Inevitably, when you live under an authoritarian dictatorship, the Russian media and people answer to one, the dictator.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

My observation, not argument, is that I find it hypocritical for people to express such outrage over the actions of Putin but remain silent when far worse has been done by their own government. Nothing more nothing less. If you disagree then you disagree. I am not even telling people how to behave or that them standing up against Russia's aggression is wrong. If people want to make assumptions about my motives behind my observations that is their choice. But it doesn't make them right. People here are the only ones suggesting that I am telling anyone to do anything.

If anything I only hope that in the future, people can hold their own governments to the same standards as they are Putin and Russia.

I have been racking my brain, but I do not recall a single incident of my government invading another country. Nor anything remotely similar - never mind worse.

I mean, I can remember Trudeau doing the blackface thing, but it's not like he was driving a tank into Zimbabwe while doing it.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It’s not hypocritical for me to criticize Russia when I also, FYI, criticized the US at the time. And even if I hadn’t back then, maybe I learned something in the past 19 years since then.

I personally think that Russia should be criticized and isolated as a result of its actions. I don't have a problem with that at all. I just hope that the next country to start a war gets the same treatment.

Originally Posted by timbit

Inevitably, when you live under an authoritarian dictatorship, the Russian media and people answer to one, the dictator.

I agree with you. However, I do think that our(western) media is also biased. The different articles and newspapers have different views depending on the local politics. That's why the same facts can be presented in various ways, to fit the narrative that best suits its publication. We definitely have it better than Russia, but the media is still influenced by our leaders/politicians/whomever is in power.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

If anything I only hope that in the future, people can hold their own governments to the same standards as they are Putin and Russia.

Russia has one standard. Do as Putin wishes..or else.That’s the difference between a communist dictatorship and a democracy.

In a democracy , you can remove a leader.

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by timbit

Russia has one standard. Do as Putin wishes..or else.That’s the difference between a communist dictatorship and a democracy.

In a democracy , you can remove a leader.

America is run by Oligarchs, has been for some time now.

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I have been racking my brain, but I do not recall a single incident of my government invading another country. Nor anything remotely similar - never mind worse.

I mean, I can remember Trudeau doing the blackface thing, but it's not like he was driving a tank into Zimbabwe while doing it.

Canada supported the Regime change in Lybia and other countries.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

America is run by Oligarchs, has been for some time now.

Any factual substantiation?

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by timbit

Any factual substantiation?

Would you deny that organized groups or corporations representing special interests have more influence on the government while average citizens have far less influence?

[PuckSlap]

Saying #### trudeau or let’s go Brandon, in the US and Canada, is fine. But that’s not something you say, write or exercise, in Russia, about Putin.

Ovi, might just be looking out for the ones he loves.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

Would you deny that organized groups or corporations representing special interests have more influence on the government while average citizens have far less influence?

That's true in every country, and is not at all the same thing as dictatorship.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

Would you deny that organized groups or corporations representing special interests have more influence on the government while average citizens have far less influence?

Presidents are elected by the people, every 4 years.

Other elected officials, every 2 years.

The people decide on the leaders.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

Canada supported the Regime change in Lybia and other countries.

And you think that's the same (or worse) than invasion and occupation of a country?

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's true in every country, and is not at all the same thing as dictatorship.

I said America was an Oligarchy. The leaders policies are mostly influenced by the rich and powerful. Denying this just means you have your head in the sand. Saying that "most countries do this" is just learned helplessness.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

I said America was an Oligarchy. The leaders policies are mostly influenced by the rich and powerful. Denying this just means you have your head in the sand. Saying that "most countries do this" is just learned helplessness.

Rich and powerful influencing politics =/= oligarchy

Also, can you please try and post without being as ass?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

I said America was an Oligarchy. The leaders policies are mostly influenced by the rich and powerful. Denying this just means you have your head in the sand. Saying that "most countries do this" is just learned helplessness.

This is incorrect. The Oligarchs are wealthy because of their proximity to power, plutocrats have proximity to power because of their wealth. That may sound like a difference without distinction, but it creates very different incentives and results.

In the US (to a lesser degree Canada), anyone who gets wealthy can have an outsized voice for change in governance. In Russia, the governance does not change because the wealthy lose everything once their power is lost. The wealthy need the leader in an oligarchy, the leader needs the wealthy in a plutocracy

[GIODUDE]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

This is incorrect. The Oligarchs are wealthy because of their proximity to power, plutocrats have proximity to power because of their wealth. That may sound like a difference without distinction, but it creates very different incentives and results.

In the US (to a lesser degree Canada), anyone who gets wealthy can have an outsized voice for change in governance. In Russia, the governance does not change because the wealthy lose everything once their power is lost. The wealthy need the leader in an oligarchy, the leader needs the wealthy in a plutocracy

Can we at least agree that they're all corrupt as F@#$?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GIODUDE

I said America was an Oligarchy. The leaders policies are mostly influenced by the rich and powerful. Denying this just means you have your head in the sand. Saying that "most countries do this" is just learned helplessness.

Street Pharmacist is quite right. Nobody is denying anything, and nobody is suffering from ‘learned helplessness’.

Of course powerful people influence policy. What else do you think being powerful means? And of course the rich influence policy: wealth is a form of power.

In a real oligarchy, the leaders make sure that nobody but themselves can acquire any wealth or power, thus making their own positions permanent. This describes Russia well enough, but does not describe the U.S. at all. Do you think Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos were born billionaires?