I think when they are competing as a group as a country, it is perfectly fine to exclude Russia as it brings glory and national pride to see the flag and hear their anthem play. However, I don't believe punitive measures against individuals is necessary, helpful, and likely would be pretty counterproductive by alienating them on a personal level.
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Not at the time, you were either "with us or against us"
It is interesting to see our opinions change when "we" are being invaded vs doing the invading.
The masses will always buy what they are being sold. (more of a contempt for Iraq than Ukraine situation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
That’s a bunch of BS. Protests against the Iraq war were among the biggest ever seen. How old are you anyway?
“Strap him an AK 47, let him go, fight his own wars, let him impress daddy that way”
Russia is a POS for what it is doing. That being said, America is responsible for far worse reprehensible war crimes in the world. I love how everyone can get on their high horse when mainstream media picks a new bad guy. Everyone is socially engineered beyond repair.
Russia is a POS for what it is doing. That being said, America is responsible for far worse reprehensible war crimes in the world. I love how everyone can get on their high horse when mainstream media picks a new bad guy. Everyone is socially engineered beyond repair.
Whataboutism is a failure of an argument.
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I am not using "whataboutisms" to defend anything. Merely pointing out the hypocrisy of this whole thing. You have a problem with that?
What you did was literally using the whataboutism logical fallacy: attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument.
I've bolded your next logical fallacy, ad hominem: This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument.
So basically, you're using social engineering in a (poor) attempt to initiate discussion.
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It's good to call out hypocrisy when someone is doing something negative which goes against the moral stance they have previously taken.
It's very strange to call out hypocrisy when someone is taking a moral stance against something negative they have previously been guilty of.
The former is an attempt at encouraging someone to think twice about bad behaviour, the latter would be an attempt at encouraging someone to think twice about good behaviour (considering we can't go backwards in time). I guess you could argue that it's an attempt at encouraging good behaviour during some theorhetical future event in line with the current moral stance... but it doesn't seem like a really pressing point to make.
It's good to call out hypocrisy when someone is doing something negative which goes against the moral stance they have previously taken.
It's very strange to call out hypocrisy when someone is taking a moral stance against something negative they have previously been guilty of.
The former is an attempt at encouraging someone to think twice about bad behaviour, the latter would be an attempt at encouraging someone to think twice about good behaviour (considering we can't go backwards in time). I guess you could argue that it's an attempt at encouraging good behaviour during some theorhetical future event in line with the current moral stance... but it doesn't seem like a really pressing point to make.
The hypocrisy is going on at this moment, so why wouldn't I bring it up now? I wish people would stand up against their own government for doing the same thing. I applaud the brave people of Russia who are protesting this invasion.
America's fingers are all over the regime change in Ukraine that occurred in 2014. They also have blood on their hands. As far as I'm concerned they're no better than Russia.
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The hypocrisy is going on at this moment, so why wouldn't I bring it up now? I wish people would stand up against their own government for doing the same thing. I applaud the brave people of Russia who are protesting this invasion.
America's fingers are all over the regime change in Ukraine that occurred in 2014. They also have blood on their hands. As far as I'm concerned they're no better than Russia.
Because they’re currently doing the right thing. You’re suggesting people stand up to the US government for standing up to Russia. Your position is at odds with itself.
Where did I suggest that? I just hope that before people get on their high horse and put on their virtue signalling hats that they can also look at their own house and be proactive in standing up against their own governments misdeeds.
The fact people are even getting defensive about a simple observation shows their bias.
The fact people are even getting defensive about a simple observation shows their bias.
From what I'm seeing, people aren't getting defensive about a simple observation. They're attacking a foolish argument, which does not require any bias at all.
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What you did was literally using the whataboutism logical fallacy: attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument.
I've bolded your next logical fallacy, ad hominem: This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument.
So basically, you're using social engineering in a (poor) attempt to initiate discussion.
Where did I suggest that? I just hope that before people get on their high horse and put on their virtue signalling hats that they can also look at their own house and be proactive in standing up against their own governments misdeeds.
The fact people are even getting defensive about a simple observation shows their bias.
So before people condemn/stand up to Russia, you want them to do what, exactly? What’s the pressing thing they need to consider/express and how would you like it to impact their opinion on Russia? Don’t use vague buzzwords, say what you’re trying to say.
Aren’t you just on your high horse doing some virtue signalling?
Shows their bias in what sense? What are people showing bias towards or against by not accepting your virtue signalling at face value?
Guys, in all honesty I don't see the point in you arguing over it. What's happening right now is hell. Does it really matter if the US was responsible for creating such hell before? Our responsibility is to prevent such hell from happening again.
There are similarities between all wars, and that's the ugly side of humanity gets to shine. When people on both sides want to live another day morals go out the window. Unfortunately, we live in a world of super heroes and villains, so we have to think of things in terms of good and bad. My thoughts go to all the people that experience loss as a result of this action. Hopefully the world will find a way to stop it as soon as possible.
I guess what I wanted to say was that there's enough fighting as it is, just find a way to agree to disagree.
Not at the time, you were either "with us or against us"
It is interesting to see our opinions change when "we" are being invaded vs doing the invading.
The masses will always buy what they are being sold. (more of a contempt for Iraq than Ukraine situation)
It's public record, including Chrétien telling Bush to get bent when Canada was pressured to join the Iraq war effort. This is something we can be proud of.
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From what I'm seeing, people aren't getting defensive about a simple observation. They're attacking a foolish argument, which does not require any bias at all.
My observation, not argument, is that I find it hypocritical for people to express such outrage over the actions of Putin but remain silent when far worse has been done by their own government. Nothing more nothing less. If you disagree then you disagree. I am not even telling people how to behave or that them standing up against Russia's aggression is wrong. If people want to make assumptions about my motives behind my observations that is their choice. But it doesn't make them right. People here are the only ones suggesting that I am telling anyone to do anything.
If anything I only hope that in the future, people can hold their own governments to the same standards as they are Putin and Russia.
One would think Canada should feel a lot more secure about having the USA as its neighboring country, as opposed to Russia.
I’m damn sure Ukraine would be.
I agree with you. I'm pretty sure that a country like Cuba didn't feel too secure with it's neighbor when it allowed Russian bases and missiles in it's territory. That's the official excuse(or one of) for the war. That Ukraine wanted to join NATO. It's still an excuse, but I'm pretty sure the US wouldn't allow any Russian weaponry on Canadian soil either.
This post in no way supports Russia, I'm just trying to say that the whole argument is not as black and white as some posters make it out to be. Hell people could bring up Afghanistan, or Kosovo as places Canada helped invade. Again, for good reasons, but the Russian government is giving similar reasons to the reasons given before Kosovo. Again I don't write it in order to support the Russian government(far from it, I hope the Putin is dethroned asap), but I can see how much media sways public perception of wars, and the Russian media is a well oiled machine.
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