Ukraine was infected with the same robber barons after the fall of the Soviets, but I don't think their current government is that ilk. Reform is a long and grinding process over decades. Putin doesn't like the direction they're heading, away from a kleptocracy towards a stable democratic EU member.
"That apartment building was scheduled for demolition anyways, the Russian troops are just being helpful and saving the city on demolition costs. Nothing to see here...."
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If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Does anybody in CP want their kids heading over to fight for Ukraine against Russia? I don't. I'm also concerned admitting them into NATO makes for a more dangerous world; not less.
I can really see how appeasement was the first strategy against the Nazis. I mean, I look at this and hope that 1. Putin is repelled by Ukraine or 2. If he isn't that he stops there. I definitely don't want more countries joining this because I don't see how it ends well for anyone.
We can't forget nuclear weapons are on the table here. Say we all join in and push the Russians out of Ukraine and then do what we can to neuter their military some more so they can't just restart the fight when we leave...what do we think Putin will do? He'll using fataing nuclear weapons.
Nuclear weapons have us over a barrel. If you go charging into Russia, they will be used. Why wouldn't they? He'd be crazy not to use them at that point.
If this war is such that Ukraine is going to lose, maybe they surrender and we all mourn the brutality and lack of fairness in the world, but the world gets to keep turning and we don't nuke a city or 20.
Sometimes there are no-win situations. I think this is one. I believe we are seeing pro-Ukraine propaganda that makes some of us think Ukrainians are putting up a bigger and better fight than they are. I think in the end, they lose. When that point becomes the blatantly obvious outcome, they need to surrender and call it a day. Or live with war and guerilla war for the next decade or two. Sucks balls.
I have no desire to fight in a war or have my kids fight in a war.
My comment is in response to his comment regarding how Ukraine isn't perfect, per se.
There is a time and place for that discussion. But it isn't now.
Ukraine is a damn sight better country/gov't than Russia.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Are you the type of guy that reminds a drowning man that he should have taken swimming lessons?
I'm a guy who has personal experience being a refugee from a country oppressed by Russia (I was 6 when we fled, leaving all our possessions behind, and spent 2 years without a real home), who has grown up with countless personal stories of family tragedy and loss due to Russians, and whose extended family all still lives less than an hour from the Ukraine border. For the rest of my life I will have nothing but contempt for Russian government and a general distrust of Russian people.
And yet I am still of the belief that we need to balance between punishing Russia/Putin, and not getting overly entangled in an extremely volatile and corrupt part of the world. We need to help Ukrainian citizens today, but we also need to keep the long-term big-picture in mind, and think bringing Ukraine into the EU/NATO would be a mistake.
Yes, us East Europeans are a cynical and distrusting bunch!
Last edited by Table 5; 02-28-2022 at 11:03 AM.
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World football’s governing body, FIFA, announced Monday that it would suspend Russia indefinitely from international tournaments — expelling it from the World Cup 2022 playoffs one month before the final qualification matches.
In a joint statement with UEFA, European football’s governing body, FIFA said: “FIFA and UEFA have today decided together that all Russian teams, whether national representative teams or club teams, shall be suspended from participation in both FIFA and UEFA competitions until further notice.”
FIFA had come under fire Sunday night for its initial proposed sanctions on Russia, which proposed only a temporary ban on its name, flag and national anthem, and a prohibition on hosting international matches.
Poland — which was due to face Russia in Moscow in the playoff semifinal — Sweden and the Czech Republic had said they would refuse to play against Russia, even at a neutral venue, following President Vladimir Putin’s all-out military assault on Ukraine. A flood of national federations followed suit, saying they would refuse to play against Russian national teams until further notice.
In the statement, the organizations said: “Football is fully united here and in full solidarity with all the people affected in Ukraine. Both Presidents hope that the situation in Ukraine will improve significantly and rapidly so that football can again be a vector for unity and peace amongst people.”
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I have no desire to fight in a war or have my kids fight in a war.
My comment is in response to his comment regarding how Ukraine isn't perfect, per se.
There is a time and place for that discussion. But it isn't now.
Ukraine is a damn sight better country/gov't than Russia.
Yes, and yes. The fact of the matter is that by matters of degrees the discussion about the quality and alleged 'Naziness' of Ukraine's Government can be had, but later.
Because whatever that BS alleged 'Naziness' may or may not be...Ukraine didnt invade anybody.
The quality or comparison between the Governments of Ukraine and Russia are irrelevant to the 'right here right now.'
Saying that Ukraine had Nazi sympathizers in Government so Russia was obligated to invade them is pure, Grade A, unadulterated Horse####.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
I'm a guy who has personal experience being a refugee from a country oppressed by Russia (I was 6 when we fled, leaving all our possessions behind, and spent 2 years without a real home), who has grown up with countless personal stories of family tragedy and loss due to Russians, and whose extended family all still lives less than an hour from the Ukraine border. For the rest of my life I will have nothing but contempt for Russian government and a general distrust of Russian people.
And yet I am still of the belief that we need to balance between punishing Russia/Putin, and not getting overly entangled in an extremely volatile and corrupt part of the world. We need to help Ukrainian citizens today, but we also need to keep the long-term big-picture in mind, and think bringing Ukraine into the EU/NATO would be a mistake.
Yes, us East Europeans are a cynical and distrusting bunch!
I agree. I know right now everyone has their blood up and wants to see Russia punished but man....have we not learned anything from History?
If the rest of the World hammers Russia down they're going to get pissed off and resentful and this is all going to happen all over again.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
BP has pulled out of a $14B stake in Rosneft. Investment withdrawl like this will put Putin in a corner. The ruble is already trading below one cent USD. Putin is going to economically destroy Russia, and for what gain?
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There is a time and place for that discussion. But it isn't now.
Why not? I think it's perfectly possible to talk about day-to-day happenings while also looking at the 10,000 foot discussion of EU/NATO membership. Are we not capable of patting our head and rubbing our belly at the same time?
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Why not? I think it's perfectly possible to talk about day-to-day happenings while also looking at the 10,000 foot discussion of EU/NATO membership. Are we not capable of patting our head and rubbing our belly at the same time?
Knock yourself out then man.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Ukraine will be hit hard tonight. Massive convoy on the way to Kyiv. Silence in Kharkov during the 'negotiations' but the second they stop, back to attacking.
My wife said that on the news they fear the internet being knocked out in her area soon, news told them to prepare for that. Today 3 men were missing or kidnapped from her village. Not sure if it was an altercation of some kind, but they still have not gone outside for days. She said the solidiers that roam her village are more volatile now, where as before they simply asked people for food and directions.
Added a UA long distance call package from my cell phone provider, tested it out and can still call her. I'm not an expert how cellular mobile services work, or if calling will even be available even if internet is out. Either way, told her it's at least worth a try to load this UA plan on both our Polish sim cards with this plan and hope for the best with it, even down the road.
Told her if the internet is out, I will call her in the morning and evening every day to try and reach her. I promised her that I will never stop looking for her.
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Ukraine will be hit hard tonight. Massive convoy on the way to Kyiv. Silence in Kharkov during the 'negotiations' but the second they stop, back to attacking.
My wife said that on the news they fear the internet being knocked out in her area soon, news told them to prepare for that. Today 3 men were missing or kidnapped from her village. Not sure if it was an altercation of some kind, but they still have not gone outside for days. She said the solidiers that roam her village are more volatile now, where as before they simply asked people for food and directions.
Added a UA long distance call package from my cell phone provider, tested it out and can still call her. I'm not an expert how cellular mobile services work, or if calling will even be available even if internet is out. Either way, told her it's at least worth a try to load this UA plan on both our Polish sim cards with this plan and hope for the best with it, even down the road.
Told her if the internet is out, I will call her in the morning and evening every day to try and reach her. I promised her that I will never stop looking for her.
I can’t even imagine what you’re going through. I’m not much of a religious man but me and my family are praying for you. I’m sorry this is happening to you.
Last edited by stang; 02-28-2022 at 11:27 AM.
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BP has pulled out of a $14B stake in Rosneft. Investment withdrawl like this will put Putin in a corner. The ruble is already trading below one cent USD. Putin is going to economically destroy Russia, and for what gain?
Shell just also announced:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier Blas on Twitter
Shell announces it's exiting all its joint-ventures with Gazprom, including its 27.5% stake in the Sakhalin-2 LNG facility. Shell carries those JV at $3 billion valuation on its books, and it's warning of impartments
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BP has pulled out of a $14B stake in Rosneft. Investment withdrawl like this will put Putin in a corner. The ruble is already trading below one cent USD. Putin is going to economically destroy Russia, and for what gain?
Shell has pulled out of their investments as well. Valued at $3b.
Ukraine offers Russian soliders full amnesty and $5 million rubles in compensation if they lay down their arms and surrender voluntarily.
Google translate ""We offer Russian soldiers a choice: to die in an unjust war or a full amnesty and 5 million rubles in compensation. If they lay down their arms and surrender voluntarily "
