Russia invades Ukraine

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I also had a thought is there a way that Ukraine could unexpectedly declare Lviv the Capital is Russians get to.close to kyiv and funny enough there is precedent i history thanks *ironically* because of the Russians. Peter the great just on a whim declared that st.peterbough would be a better capital city as it was more western and admit more trade and commerce. Than Moscow.

If all does go belly up would this be a play the Ukrainian government could accomplish in short order?

USA did offer Zelenskiy to flee to Lviv, but he refused. I thought, the plan for the west is to set up a proxy state at Lviv, similar to Donbass rebel republics, and channel NATO troops disguised as mercenaries through it. But it seems like Zelenskiy is confident he can save Kyiv. Maybe taking a page from Stalin's playbook in defending Moscow in WW2

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Actually Moscow-New York/Miami flights fly over Sweden as well. Makes me wonder if they are fine with it or not. At this point it's probably Americans, not Russians, who need this flight most. No big deal in the grand scheme of things anyway.

I'd admittedly be more ok with this *if * we track the plane on a return flight from Moscow to Miami/ New York with a confirmed usa/ Canadian contingency aboard. Otherwise we just say sections without enforcing them. In the grand scheme it dosent mean much but If we never see that plane and pilots again then the Canadian government should punish the company and those particular pilots for violating Canadian airspace.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Pointman

USA did offer Zelenskiy to flee to Lviv, but he refused. I thought, the plan for the west is to set up a proxy state at Lviv, similar to Donbass rebel republics, and channel NATO troops disguised as mercenaries through it. But it seems like Zelenskiy is confident he can save Kyiv. Maybe taking a page from Stalin's playbook in defending Moscow in WW2

No. The USA offered Zenlensky a ride to the Ukrainian embassy in Britain. Very different situation.

I'm going out on a wild limb here and guessing where you are your not getting accurate/ propagandists messaging. Especially the part about Nato troops being disguised as mercenaries in the Donbass region if that were true nato forces would have already taken that back in days and years ago.

Nato has 3.5 million plus milatary personal available. If that were true those "mercenaries " could have been assigned to those areas and completely over ran the Russian separatists easily. That sounds like Red army propaganda to justify a war

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

No. The USA offered Zenlensky a ride to the Ukrainian embassy in Britain. Very different situation.

I'm going out on a wild limb here and guessing where you are your not getting accurate/ propagandists messaging. Especially the part about Nato troops being disguised as mercenaries in the Donbass region if that were true nato forces would have already taken that back in days and years ago.

Nato has 3.5 million plus milatary personal available. If that were true those "mercenaries " could have been assigned to those areas and completely over ran the Russian separatists easily. That sounds like Red army propaganda to justify a war

At the beginning USA did suggest to Zelenskiy to move to Lviv:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc.../amp/rcna17094

There are clearly no NATO troops in Ukraine as of yet. It's quite likely that they will come, as mercenaries or otherwise, as response to Russian invasion. It's not propaganda to justify the invasion, it's another way around. It is fairly common that big country steps in when the side they support is almost defeated.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Pointman

At the beginning USA did suggest to Zelenskiy to move to Lviv:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc.../amp/rcna17094

There are clearly no NATO troops in Ukraine as of yet. It's quite likely that they will come, as mercenaries or otherwise, as response to Russian invasion. It's not propaganda to justify the invasion, it's another way around. It is fairly common that big country steps in when the side they support is almost defeated.

The link is before the invasion happened. I'm going off info since the invasion. The USA never offered to take Zelenskiy to Lviv.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Pointman

At the beginning USA did suggest to Zelenskiy to move to Lviv:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc.../amp/rcna17094

There are clearly no NATO troops in Ukraine as of yet. It's quite likely that they will come, as mercenaries or otherwise, as response to Russian invasion. It's not propaganda to justify the invasion, it's another way around. It is fairly common that big country steps in when the side they support is almost defeated.

The link is before the invasion happened. I'm going off info since the invasion. The USA never offered to take Zelenskiy to Lviv. They have only offered a ride after the invasion to the Britain Ukrainian embassy. Which was only two days ago

" Thanks but, I don't need a.ride . I need ammunition." Via twitter which by all accounts is heavily restricted in Russia since the invasion started.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I'd admittedly be more ok with this *if * we track the plane on a return flight from Moscow to Miami/ New York with a confirmed usa/ Canadian contingency aboard. Otherwise we just say sections without enforcing them. In the grand scheme it dosent mean much but If we never see that plane and pilots again then the Canadian government should punish the company and those particular pilots for violating Canadian airspace.

Countries charge for flying over in their airspace. Could be that Russia has already paid for those routes and Canada just let the current deal expire.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

The link is before the invasion happened. I'm going off info since the invasion. The USA never offered to take Zelenskiy to Lviv. They have only offered a ride after the invasion to the Britain Ukrainian embassy. Which was only two days ago

" Thanks but, I don't need a.ride . I need ammunition." Via twitter which by all accounts is heavily restricted in Russia since the invasion started.

Twitter is available in Russia and so is reddit live feed. You are just referencing to a different episode.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Don't have much to update on my wife's situation today except my heart is so heavy for her and her family right now. Once again the 4th or 5th night in a row of barely any sleep. She didn't even know what day today was when she called. Explosions, shellings, gunfire non stop all night. She's too afraid to sleep with earplugs in case something happens. Asked her to use them during the day if it quiets down a bit to try and get some rest. Sometimes I don't even know if she understands my words anymore. I see she has lost hope. I ask her how the rest of her family is and she just shakes her head without responding. It's bad.

There was gunfire at the food store 2 blocks from her apartment. She think that the Russian soldiers are ransacking the stores and possibly came across some residence. She saw the news of the nukes heading to Belarus. ####ing great.

They are slowly being starved. No new food arrivals. Lootings and shootings at the food store. They have a small storage of preservatives. But for 6 people it will be gone soon. Now reports of Russians troops firing on civilians all over the country. #### sakes.

Don't even have words anymore for how depressing, upsetting, disgusting, this entire situation is. Just hoping each hour of each day we hear the news of a ceasefire or Putin dead.

I'm so sorry to read this HW.

My biggest fear right now is that the Russians - who seem to have shown restraint so far in terms of what they're targeting - will start aiming their efforts at the civilian population. My friend lives in the Northwest of Kyiv - which seems to be where that miles long convoy of military vehicles is heading. Like your wife's family, they only have days worth of supplies and few options to shelter from an attack if it comes. It's hard to know what to say or suggest. Yesterday we were writing back and forth about ways to secure the area under the stairs in her home to avoid things like shrapnel and broken glass flying in from explosions. A week ago they'd just have been going to work, taking the kid to daycare, and figuring out what's for dinner.

As encouraging as some of the news about the resistance has been, it feels like there's still a long way to go. I hope your wife and her family are able to find a way to restock and otherwise stay sheltered and safe. And I hope things change for the better soon.

[transplant99]

Russian oil continues to flow even into Canada. Despite sitting on our own ocean of oil, last year saw Canada spend roughly $1 million per day on Russian oil imports – and there have been no official moves made towards turning away Russian-flagged ships at our oil ports.

Writing in the National Post , former Liberal candidate Adam Pankratz wrote that Canadian oil and gas should have been used to alleviate the stranglehold that Moscow currently holds on Western Europe by virtue of supplying much of its energy. “Any Canadian up in arms about (Ukraine) and wondering what we could do need only look to what we could have done: build pipelines and get our oil and gas to market,” he wrote. “Energy East or other gas pipelines could be sending tankers of LNG to Europe non-stop to ease the dependence on Russian gas.”

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...?ocid=msedgntp

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by curves2000

This massive convey that stretches 5+ km's including an insane amount of weapons and equipment and this face to face meeting is interesting. The timing seems to be lining up that this next day or two will be vital for both parties.

If we get into a situation where Russia starts attacking and killing large volumes of civilians with these nasty weapons, how can the west just sit back and watch it happen live on TV and on social media?

This news and the news that Belarus is looking at joining the fight , Putin's rhetoric and more, I still don't see how western countries don't get involved in some capacity.

I really hope some assistance and support, weapons and more arrive quickly today from the west.

Having a 5km long convoy just sitting open on a road strikes me as ridiculously stupid if you don't have total control over the air.

Of course I've only been a military expert for 3 days so perhaps I'm missing something.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I'm so sorry to read this HW.

My biggest fear right now is that the Russians - who seem to have shown restraint so far in terms of what they're targeting - will start aiming their efforts at the civilian population. My friend lives in the Northwest of Kyiv - which seems to be where that miles long convoy of military vehicles is heading. Like your wife's family, they only have days worth of supplies and few options to shelter from an attack if it comes. It's hard to know what to say or suggest. Yesterday we were writing back and forth about ways to secure the area under the stairs in her home to avoid things like shrapnel and broken glass flying in from explosions. A week ago they'd just have been going to work, taking the kid to daycare, and figuring out what's for dinner.

As encouraging as some of the news about the resistance has been, it feels like there's still a long way to go. I hope your wife and her family are able to find a way to restock and otherwise stay sheltered and safe. And I hope things change for the better soon.

Really sorry to hear about your situation and your friend. Quite a few people on CP this is affecting, even on the Russian side. A completely unnecessary, stupid and needless war. Hoping the best for your friend and her family too.

I often wonder if things would have been less bloody had Ukraine been overwhelmed from the start. I hate thinking like that because to most outsiders the UA resistance is a feel-good story and a sovereign country must defend itself. For those of us with friends and family there, it's extending the pain to what is likely the inevitable outcome.

Personally my wife and family could not care less about sanctions, EU memberships or foreign aid. I know it's one the few tools the West has and eventually we should see it come to fruition (hopefully). But for now it's all about survival minute to minute for them and the ONLY thing important to them is this constant stream of attacks stopping. Kharkov is already having it's civilians used as targets. Disgusting. So many videos I have seen are places I have been to and recognize.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Cripes.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1498277815438888964

[PeteMoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1498288545273946112

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

https://twitter.com/user/status/1498288545273946112

Wow, that's a big shift and fast if it's true. I read a poll from January saying 40% opposed

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Really sorry to hear about your situation and your friend. Quite a few people on CP this is affecting, even on the Russian side. A completely unnecessary, stupid and needless war. Hoping the best for your friend and her family too.

I often wonder if things would have been less bloody had Ukraine been overwhelmed from the start. I hate thinking like that because to most outsiders the UA resistance is a feel-good story and a sovereign country must defend itself. For those of us with friends and family there, it's extending the pain to what is likely the inevitable outcome.

Personally my wife and family could not care less about sanctions, EU memberships or foreign aid. I know it's one the few tools the West has and eventually we should see it come to fruition (hopefully). But for now it's all about survival minute to minute for them and the ONLY thing important to them is this constant stream of attacks stopping. Kharkov is already having it's civilians used as targets. Disgusting. So many videos I have seen are places I have been to and recognize.

Thanks HW. Its easy for us in a far away place to almost watch this like a hockey game and score who's winning and losing without emotion.

Your posts are a good reminder to us all the huge impact this is having on actual humans.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

https://twitter.com/user/status/1498288545273946112

I know they are a barren country, but I thought they had more people than that.

[PeteMoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1498299232217931779

Not sure what's more unlikely - Switzerland freezing Russian money or the IOC actually acting against Russia.

[CliffFletcher]

Meanwhile

https://www.theguardian.com/football...-for-world-cup

FIFA can always be counted on to do the wrong thing.

[transplant99]

After hundreds of protesters gathered outside the Russian Embassy in Ottawa on Sunday to show their support for Ukraine, Russia’s foreign ministry demanded that Canada keep its diplomats safe — and threatened retaliation if they failed to do so.

The protesters, who then made their way to city hall, were called hostile in a statement by Russia’s foreign ministry. Russia called in Canada’s ambassador to Moscow to lodge a formal protest, Reuters reported.

So a bunch of placard carrying people are "hostile" now?

All while the same government releases hell on earth to a bunch of innocent civilians.

OK then.