Russia invades Ukraine

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by devo22

our chancellor phoned him yesterday and apparently Zelensky flat out told him that he has no idea how much longer he'd be alive. Chilling stuff.

In the last two days I've seen amazing leadership and honesty from him. I'm a huge fan, and I can already see why he won in a landslide.

But I think he will be killed in a few days (if not tonight) if he doesn't flee to Warsaw or London etc.

And judging by what I've seen so far, fleeing hasn't even crossed his mind.

[TheIronMaiden]

Not that it is important at all in this context. But it would be nice to see Russia banned from the world cup. Not that Fifa cares about human rights or anything.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

But it is a valid question.

How does the West react to this and future actions like this from Russia (I believe there will be more) & China (I believe they are seeing what the West does).

We can't just sit and watch this type of thing happen.

Clearly diplomacy doesn't work.

That depends on the country and the interests at stake. If China invaded Mongolia, I doubt the West would do anything more than make diplomatic protests and impose economic sanctions. However, if they prepared to invade Taiwan, the U.S. and its allies would make it clear the military would intervene, carrier fleets would be deployed, and diplomatic back-channels would make it clear to China exactly what actions on their part would trigger a military response.

It sounds harsh, but NATO forces were not deployed to Ukraine because most of the member states do not regard the sovereignty of Ukraine to be a matter worth fighting (or even risking) a war with Russia over. It’s not a member of NATO. That’s not the case with the Baltic states and Poland - which is why they’re members of the alliance and NATO forces are permanently deployed there.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

But it is a valid question.

How does the West react to this and future actions like this from Russia (I believe there will be more) & China (I believe they are seeing what the West does).

We can't just sit and watch this type of thing happen.

Clearly diplomacy doesn't work.

You wait till they attack a country that directly affects you, unfortunately.

[JoseCuervo]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Do you want a nuke dropped on your head? The West will not attack back because no one wants to launch a nuclear holocaust.

Don’t be so dramatic. Putin isn’t dropping nukes on anyone, even if the west challenged him by military means.

[Press Level]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

So at what point does Canada send troops then? Poland? Latvia? We'd be obligated to at that point... but then WW3 is started by then.

If one NATO member is attacked, it is considered "an attack on all." That means almost all of Western/Central Europe and North America go to war against Russia and parts of Eastern Europe. At that point, China can safely turn its attention to Taiwan... WWIII. With multiple nuclear armed countries involved, Armageddon would be almost inevitable. That is why Ukraine will be allowed to fall, as tragic as it is, because the alternative would be far, far worse.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by JoseCuervo

Don’t be so dramatic. Putin isn’t dropping nukes on anyone, even if the west challenged him by military means.

If the West started shelling the Russian mainland, you don't think he'd launch nukes? I'm certain he would.

[TheIronMaiden]

The nukes were made to be used. The threat of nuclear Armageddon is as real as it ever was.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Translation from Ukrainian speakers/ cyrillic readers appreciated. It appears Zelenskyy himself is in the streets in uniform ready to fight.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1497254643587588099

It's from Russian media and is written in Russian, not Ukrainian. It reads "We are here. In Kyiv. We are protecting Ukraine".

The speech is in Ukrainian and goes like this. He introduces everyone in the group by their titles like "prime minister" and other high level titles, saying that this man is "here" ("toot"). Then he said "president is here". Then he says that they all are there protecting independence and they will carry on doing it. Then they say glory to their troops.

[Minnie]

Speaking of NATO - I have been assured this is mostly a "be prepared to go" type of action.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1497267491470512132

[FlameOn]

Ukrainian foreign ministry reporting Italians are now on board with SWIFT ban. I'd expect an announcement from EU shortly since Germany and Italians are now both reportedly on board. Guess they ran the math and figured out they can make it through the winter.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1497267568461205509

[Minnie]

Dublin makes sure that the Russian ambassador knows its displeasure, as the car they're in, tries to enter the Embassy.

https://streamable.com/sun11f

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If the West started shelling the Russian mainland, you don't think he'd launch nukes? I'm certain he would.

I don't, at least it depends on where the rounds fell.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by JoseCuervo

Don’t be so dramatic. Putin isn’t dropping nukes on anyone, even if the west challenged him by military means.

Putin's doesn't appear to be in a stable state of mind. His latest moves are also puzzling and have seemingly no rational explanation.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If the West started shelling the Russian mainland, you don't think he'd launch nukes? I'm certain he would.

Russian military doctrine has always include the use of tactical nukes in dire situations (emphasis on dire and simple shelling would not even remotely qualify), as have NATO past doctrines past doctrines... including scenarios where Soviet/Russian tanks made it to the Fulda gap.

Strategic nukes would be automatically world ending and I'd hope there is someone still sane enough to put a bullet in Putin's head if he ever reached for that option. Unthinkable in the past, but not sure where things are these days.

[surferguy]

Twitter tells me that Anonymous has taken down RT website (and replaced with Zelenskys plea to Russians) and the ministry of defense websites. Anybody able to confirm?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'll fully admit right here that I was of the same position as Peter when it came to this. I didn't think that Putin would step over the line, let alone vault over it.

I said it would be utter lunacy for Putin to do a full scale invasion. I stand by this.

[JoseCuervo]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

If the West started shelling the Russian mainland, you don't think he'd launch nukes? I'm certain he would.

No I don’t, honestly. Yes the threat is real, but that’s why countries have them, the threat. He knows just as well that if he ever used one Russia would be destroyed by them. If there is any upside to nuclear weapons it’s mutual assured destruction.

When we say things like “there’s going to be nuclear holocaust”, or “WWIII will start if the west does that” we are helping Putin win by believing and capitulating to his threats.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1497272840852320261

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Dublin makes sure that the Russian ambassador knows its displeasure, as the car they're in, tries to enter the Embassy.

https://streamable.com/sun11f

Hey we can’t get involved militarily...maybe allied countries should plant some entirely not state sanctioned radical anti-war protesters to take Russian diplomats hostage.