Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 02-22-2022, 10:47 AM   #2081
topfiverecords
Franchise Player
 
topfiverecords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
I dont think you get any of this, the Government can outlaw any crypto exchanges, they dont need a name, all of it gets closed, no ATM's, no shady corner stores offering crypto along with a selection of bongs and king sized rolling papers, all of it gets closed, the weak point is not the owner of the crypto its the owner of the fiat exchanging the crypto, and no one is going to willing help with anything once its illegal unless you are happy to pay them 50% on the dollar, at that point exchanging crypto is no different than laundering drug money, you can do it but it costs a fortune
But Azure can trade his BTC for XMR on a decentralized exchange. Move it from wallet to wallet to wallet to wallet to wallet. Fly to a foreign country. Transfer his XMR to a stranger and receive a duffle bag of foreign currency in return. Take his duffle bag to a foreign bank and create an account through a series of shell companies. He can then convert his foreign held funds to CAD, wire some to his Canadian bank account to cover his mortgage payment and pay off his food delivery orders on his credit card. Until the government freezes it at least.
topfiverecords is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to topfiverecords For This Useful Post:
Old 02-22-2022, 10:59 AM   #2082
Wormius
Franchise Player
 
Wormius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewhere down the crazy river.
Exp:
Default

Isn’t this how people get themselves targeted by hackers? Go on a public forum, where you’re not anonymous, and advertise that you want cryptocurrency because gold or cash would be too physically bulky.

There was a good documentary about that Twitter hack where kids were doing sim swaps to be able to steal crypto, amongst other things, from people.
Wormius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 11:04 AM   #2083
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bootsnixon View Post
Cryptocurrencies are borderless though. Some exchanges are attempting to work within the regulations of all countries they offer their services to. I think that is a good thing. Other exchanges simply work within the regulations of the country they are based out of. This does not make them shady.

Kucoin is one of the largest exchanges in the world and I believe, is considered quite reputable. It is based out of Singapore and it's business model does not require kyc. It could care less if Canada enacts the Emergency Measures Act nor would it know if crypto's were coming from there.
Yes, if you move your crypto out of Canada obviously the Canadian Government cant control it but then you have to move with it, you cant get it back into Canada without either declaring it or rolling it tightly into plastic baggie and shoving as much as possible up your jacksy, now I worked with a kid in youth custody who was renowned for 'hooping' (as it is known in those circles) a rolled up copy of Penthouse into the jail, but even with that prodigeous ability were talking at best a few tens of thousands.

The issue in turning crypto into fiat is the same issue as turning drug money into useable cash, it is easy to buy and sell drugs, the hard part is legitimising the drug money, as soon as you want to open a bank account, buy a car or a house the Government is involved, again there are ways around this if you are a drug dealer but you pay a fortune for that, 50% of drug money is used to pay for the laundering process
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 11:19 AM   #2084
Fuzz
Franchise Player
 
Fuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Nobody knows who possesses the wallets. All you can do is track them if there is crypto being transferred into them. If you look on the blockchain they are just a bunch of numbers and letters.

The government literally has no access to them, and if the owners choose to trade the crypto into XMR or something else on a decentralized platform, the government can no longer track it.

This is the beauty of crypto. It removes government control & overreach over the financial system. For most people this means it can act as a hedge against inflation. To some it means they can preform criminal activities with it, but that isn't any different than criminal organizations using CDN to launder money through Canadian real estate.
They may be able to trace wallet ownership, depending on how that wallet has interacted with real financial institutions. Are there ways fo doing it to totally anonymous? Sure. But the likely hood of that happening in these situations is small. It also really limits how your wallet can be used, and all it takes is one transaction done in the open to blow it. The beauty of cryptocurrency is also an achilles heel, it is all logged and tracked forever. The other drawback is there is no central authority to have grievances resolved. When someone steals your crypto, it's gone. And it happens all the time.
Fuzz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 11:28 AM   #2085
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

When they closed Silk Rd down a couple of police agencies, the RCMP included as I recall, set up a 'Silk Rd 2' and pulled in vast amounts of organised crime info from all over the world, I would seriously expect more than a few crypto's and exchanges to just be police cover operations at this point
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 11:56 AM   #2086
opendoor
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler View Post
The suggestion of cash/gold-silver is, of course natural, but the bulkiness becomes a massive issue at any significant level beyond basic "necessities" money.
Depends on how much money you're talking about. A cubic foot of $100 bills is about $2-2.5M. And at $80K CAD per kg, $2M in gold takes up about as much space as a small laptop.

As I said above, consider whether you want to invest in crypto (or gold) or if you just want a different place to store money. If you're just looking for the latter, then there are several places (Channel Islands, Isle of Man, etc.) where non-residents can set up bank accounts in secure jurisdictions without setting foot there.
opendoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 12:08 PM   #2087
karl262
Powerplay Quarterback
 
karl262's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler View Post
Thank you for your posts. I have done a fair bit of research and reading/listening re Web 3/blockchain, so I definitely have a decent understanding of the broad concepts, but was really lacking on the "details". It seems that right now the only real threat (aside from your own bungling/errors) to BTC holdings is the actual internet being "shut down". There is obviously the volatility that is a big issue.

The suggestion of cash/gold-silver is, of course natural, but the bulkiness becomes a massive issue at any significant level beyond basic "necessities" money.
Trust me, you don't know about dealing with bulkiness until you've converted all your wealth into a commodity like feathers.

Never again.
karl262 is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to karl262 For This Useful Post:
Old 02-22-2022, 01:22 PM   #2088
karl262
Powerplay Quarterback
 
karl262's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
They may be able to trace wallet ownership, depending on how that wallet has interacted with real financial institutions. Are there ways fo doing it to totally anonymous? Sure. But the likely hood of that happening in these situations is small. It also really limits how your wallet can be used, and all it takes is one transaction done in the open to blow it. The beauty of cryptocurrency is also an achilles heel, it is all logged and tracked forever. The other drawback is there is no central authority to have grievances resolved. When someone steals your crypto, it's gone. And it happens all the time.
I think this is where the basis of so much misunderstanding lies. People need to accept that bitcoin and many other blockchains are in fact 'real financial institutions'.

With that in mind you start to wrap your head around what this all means, which I think is that central banks are becoming obsolete. We're so lucky to have a good banking system in Canada but it's by no means great unless in comparison to what 90% of the world currently has to endure for access to a bank account. Every time I have to walk into a bank and spend upwards of 30 minutes doing something that would take me 10 seconds if the person i have to get a bank draft or do a wire transfer for would accept crypto, I hear some other "customer" asking to speak with the branch manager for what I consider a legitimate gripe. It's usually about access to funds or something.

More and more people and businesses I interact with are either accepting bitcoin or are open to me simply showing them how.

I used to work in the 'real financial industry' and had to accept bank drafts on behalf of a company, many times a day on occasion, and have been fooled by phony drafts as have many colleagues. You only find out its fake 5 to 10 business days later. Then sometimes I'd have to count large amounts of cash and fill out paperwork, get signatures pinky promising this isn't illegal terrorists cash.

If the businesses just accepted btc it solves all sorts of problems. They're slowly starting to realize this.
karl262 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 02:00 PM   #2089
Itse
Franchise Player
 
Itse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
In the bigger scheme of things, crypto is going to decentralize a lot of stuff, and most of it for the better.

The biggest benefit is it takes away power from an authoritarian government, and moves toward a more decentralized system where power & financial authority is more localized.

Everyone needs to look at this beyond the lens of the politically motivated & emotionally charged 'protestors are bad' rhetoric that we now have in Canada.

We are living in a world where the 'free' governments are routinely spying on their own citizens (see latest CIA / NSA revelations in the US) without any kind of judicial oversight, and because of the politically motivated voting base, it is either being seen as 'okay' if people align with you politically, or not okay if their political views are different. This is very evident in the threads regarding the trucker protests, where people are okay with extreme government overreach and no oversight, but in a different environment those people who obviously be very critical of said government overreach.

That is why crypto is essential to helping the populace fight back against increasingly authoritarian governments across the world who operate without any regard for liberties and freedoms that are essential to any free country.
Okay, I know you're personally probably beyond reasonable talk, but I'm going to keep talking about this so that more people don't fall down this rabbit hole.

That's all just nonsense. Crypto is just MLM's for men. Most of what you're talking about has nothing at all to do with crypto, nor is there any actual plans for anyone to resolve any of those problems with crypto, beyond marketing talk.

Almost no one who is invested in crypto is working towards anything even remotely resembling decentralized "power to the people" dynamic. In fact the whole crypto market is dominated by much fewer big players than the actual
financial market is, and the whole idea of crypto is to centralize financial power in the hands of people who currently own the most crypto. That's what having deflationary currency means. Just beyond any technological or practical concerns, even in theory what you're saying is the very close to being the opposite of true.

Itse is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Itse For This Useful Post:
Old 02-22-2022, 02:38 PM   #2090
PeteMoss
Franchise Player
 
PeteMoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karl262 View Post
I think this is where the basis of so much misunderstanding lies. People need to accept that bitcoin and many other blockchains are in fact 'real financial institutions'.

With that in mind you start to wrap your head around what this all means, which I think is that central banks are becoming obsolete. We're so lucky to have a good banking system in Canada but it's by no means great unless in comparison to what 90% of the world currently has to endure for access to a bank account. Every time I have to walk into a bank and spend upwards of 30 minutes doing something that would take me 10 seconds if the person i have to get a bank draft or do a wire transfer for would accept crypto, I hear some other "customer" asking to speak with the branch manager for what I consider a legitimate gripe. It's usually about access to funds or something.

More and more people and businesses I interact with are either accepting bitcoin or are open to me simply showing them how.

I used to work in the 'real financial industry' and had to accept bank drafts on behalf of a company, many times a day on occasion, and have been fooled by phony drafts as have many colleagues. You only find out its fake 5 to 10 business days later. Then sometimes I'd have to count large amounts of cash and fill out paperwork, get signatures pinky promising this isn't illegal terrorists cash.

If the businesses just accepted btc it solves all sorts of problems. They're slowly starting to realize this.
How many people is that a real problem for? Like 1 in 10,000? 1 in 100,000?
PeteMoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 03:01 PM   #2091
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karl262 View Post
I think this is where the basis of so much misunderstanding lies. People need to accept that bitcoin and many other blockchains are in fact 'real financial institutions'.

With that in mind you start to wrap your head around what this all means, which I think is that central banks are becoming obsolete. We're so lucky to have a good banking system in Canada but it's by no means great unless in comparison to what 90% of the world currently has to endure for access to a bank account. Every time I have to walk into a bank and spend upwards of 30 minutes doing something that would take me 10 seconds if the person i have to get a bank draft or do a wire transfer for would accept crypto, I hear some other "customer" asking to speak with the branch manager for what I consider a legitimate gripe. It's usually about access to funds or something.

More and more people and businesses I interact with are either accepting bitcoin or are open to me simply showing them how.

I used to work in the 'real financial industry' and had to accept bank drafts on behalf of a company, many times a day on occasion, and have been fooled by phony drafts as have many colleagues. You only find out its fake 5 to 10 business days later. Then sometimes I'd have to count large amounts of cash and fill out paperwork, get signatures pinky promising this isn't illegal terrorists cash.

If the businesses just accepted btc it solves all sorts of problems. They're slowly starting to realize this.
You know what else is a problem in the "real financial industry"? Knowing the value of the asset on a consistent and stable basis. Regulation and oversight. The truth is, no serious business is going to accept crypto today at say $40k, when tomorrow it could be valued at $25k (or whatever). That's just way too risky and creates way too many issues to manage.

The big thing though, is regulation and oversight. If there was some, and people could trust that there was something behind this, or someone looking it would see a much greater uptake. Of course, the reason a lot of people love this and think that it's amazing is the lack of regulation and oversight.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Slava For This Useful Post:
Old 02-22-2022, 04:30 PM   #2092
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz View Post
They may be able to trace wallet ownership, depending on how that wallet has interacted with real financial institutions. Are there ways fo doing it to totally anonymous? Sure. But the likely hood of that happening in these situations is small. It also really limits how your wallet can be used, and all it takes is one transaction done in the open to blow it. The beauty of cryptocurrency is also an achilles heel, it is all logged and tracked forever. The other drawback is there is no central authority to have grievances resolved. When someone steals your crypto, it's gone. And it happens all the time.
Yup, and obviously there is a lot of sketchy stuff happening with crypto all the time.

However for most people, operating within the regulatory guidelines, crypto is nothing more than something they invest in and make money from. Just like stocks. Therefore the government will be inclined to work with it because they can make a lot of tax revenue.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 04:35 PM   #2093
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava View Post
You know what else is a problem in the "real financial industry"? Knowing the value of the asset on a consistent and stable basis. Regulation and oversight. The truth is, no serious business is going to accept crypto today at say $40k, when tomorrow it could be valued at $25k (or whatever). That's just way too risky and creates way too many issues to manage.

The big thing though, is regulation and oversight. If there was some, and people could trust that there was something behind this, or someone looking it would see a much greater uptake. Of course, the reason a lot of people love this and think that it's amazing is the lack of regulation and oversight.
That is changing though and will continue changing going into the future.

The whole talk about crypto being outlawed is laughable.

It is here to stay, and governments are already quite capable of regulating it. With time we will see better oversight and better regulations.

I get all the concern about dishonest activities, but its interesting how people just ignore the whole money laundering issue in Canada using CDN. Just because it is happening in front of your eyes doesn't mean we don't have billions of dollars of criminal activity being facilitated through CDN transfers.

Last edited by Azure; 02-22-2022 at 04:58 PM.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 04:45 PM   #2094
karl262
Powerplay Quarterback
 
karl262's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slava View Post
You know what else is a problem in the "real financial industry"? Knowing the value of the asset on a consistent and stable basis. Regulation and oversight. The truth is, no serious business is going to accept crypto today at say $40k, when tomorrow it could be valued at $25k (or whatever). That's just way too risky and creates way too many issues to manage.



The big thing though, is regulation and oversight. If there was some, and people could trust that there was something behind this, or someone looking it would see a much greater uptake. Of course, the reason a lot of people love this and think that it's amazing is the lack of regulation and oversight.
Spend 8 seconds researching businesses that accept bitcoin and tell me again what a serious business is.
karl262 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 05:13 PM   #2095
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

I'm a bit confused now, the future of crypto is with Government regulation? doesn't that take away the whole point of crypto?
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 05:26 PM   #2096
Azure
Had an idea!
 
Azure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Exp:
Default

Government regulation is important to make sure people pay their taxes.

Self custodial wallets are important because it means the government cannot 'freeze' your assets for whatever reason and keeps authoritarian governments in line as they have less total power over their citizens. Used to be people would agree with that. These days not so much.
Azure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 05:39 PM   #2097
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karl262 View Post
Spend 8 seconds researching businesses that accept bitcoin and tell me again what a serious business is.
I’m well aware that there are some companies. What volume of transactions are we talking? Its foolish to think that a lot of companies were excited to take Bitcoin at $60k, pay tax on that acceptance and now have it valued at $40k. You’re not doing that regularly and with a lot of your transactions over the long term.

That doesn’t mean I think crypto is dead, and it’s not that I think it’ll be outlawed. But for wide acceptance, it’s going to go through a lot of changes.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 05:43 PM   #2098
Slava
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
That is changing though and will continue changing going into the future.

The whole talk about crypto being outlawed is laughable.

It is here to stay, and governments are already quite capable of regulating it. With time we will see better oversight and better regulations.

I get all the concern about dishonest activities, but its interesting how people just ignore the whole money laundering issue in Canada using CDN. Just because it is happening in front of your eyes doesn't mean we don't have billions of dollars of criminal activity being facilitated through CDN transfers.
Well, the issue with dishonest activities is the rise in crypto scams and ponzi schemes. It’s not just that people involved in crimes and nefarious dealings love that this is subject to no regulation or oversight. It’s that when something like Quadriga happens, there’s virtually no recourse.
Slava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 05:50 PM   #2099
topfiverecords
Franchise Player
 
topfiverecords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse View Post
Okay, I know you're personally probably beyond reasonable talk, but I'm going to keep talking about this so that more people don't fall down this rabbit hole.

That's all just nonsense. Crypto is just MLM's for men. Most of what you're talking about has nothing at all to do with crypto, nor is there any actual plans for anyone to resolve any of those problems with crypto, beyond marketing talk.

Almost no one who is invested in crypto is working towards anything even remotely resembling decentralized "power to the people" dynamic. In fact the whole crypto market is dominated by much fewer big players than the actual
financial market is, and the whole idea of crypto is to centralize financial power in the hands of people who currently own the most crypto. That's what having deflationary currency means. Just beyond any technological or practical concerns, even in theory what you're saying is the very close to being the opposite of true.

I’m curious if Dan Olson is a forum member here.
topfiverecords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2022, 05:52 PM   #2100
topfiverecords
Franchise Player
 
topfiverecords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Yup, and obviously there is a lot of sketchy stuff happening with crypto all the time.

However for most people, operating within the regulatory guidelines, crypto is nothing more than something they invest in and make money from. Just like stocks. Therefore the government will be inclined to work with it because they can make a lot of tax revenue.
That’s also the same reason they’ll look to shut it down. Same reason they’re going after off shore accounts.
topfiverecords is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bitcoin , cryptocurrency , ethereum

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021