Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Azure

In the bigger scheme of things, crypto is going to decentralize a lot of stuff, and most of it for the better.

The biggest benefit is it takes away power from an authoritarian government, and moves toward a more decentralized system where power & financial authority is more localized.

Everyone needs to look at this beyond the lens of the politically motivated & emotionally charged 'protestors are bad' rhetoric that we now have in Canada.

We are living in a world where the 'free' governments are routinely spying on their own citizens (see latest CIA / NSA revelations in the US) without any kind of judicial oversight, and because of the politically motivated voting base, it is either being seen as 'okay' if people align with you politically, or not okay if their political views are different. This is very evident in the threads regarding the trucker protests, where people are okay with extreme government overreach and no oversight, but in a different environment those people who obviously be very critical of said government overreach.

That is why crypto is essential to helping the populace fight back against increasingly authoritarian governments across the world who operate without any regard for liberties and freedoms that are essential to any free country.

I guess I'll have to wait to see it happen. I think it's more likely that a stable coin backed by a country's reserve bank will have more staying power than cryptos.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Izzle

I guess I'll have to wait to see it happen. I think it's more likely that a stable coin backed by a country's reserve bank will have more staying power than cryptos.

And which stable coin is backed by a reserve bank right now?

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by Azure

And which stable coin is backed by a reserve bank right now?

None. You probably know better but doesn't China have plans to peg their crypto to their currency?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Izzle

None. You probably know better but doesn't China have plans to peg their crypto to their currency?

There may be a crypto backed to a reserve currency at some point, but it kind of defeats the purpose but it may be popular for staking perhaps.

I believe USDT and USDC get good staking rates on crypto.com because of their stability.

You are correct China is trying to push a crypto coin based on their currency. A big reason why they have banned BTC numerous times and it seems like have gotten rid of a lot of mining operations as well.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Not interested in a pointless debate. Just the mechanics of owning crypto - hence why I posted in the Crypto thread, and not one of many available political threads...

You posted directly referring to political events, so don't be surprised when your terribad takes on those are pointed out.

[VladtheImpaler]

Apologies for triggering the lovers of benevolent totalitarianism and causing irrelevant debate. I shall miss seeing their posts.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Apologies for triggering the lovers of benevolent totalitarianism and causing irrelevant debate. I shall miss seeing their posts.

Did you consume some off dumplings or something?

Why don’t you you just buy gold coins or get cash if this is your only motivation. You’ll find it a lot more useable, especially If you’re a newb with crypto and want to do more than watch it vary wildly in value or pay for ransomware attacks.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

I am seeing this getting said a lot and it is fascinating to read as it shows a massive ignorance of how crypto works.

There are hundreds of guides online that tell you how to get around this specific issue. If someone is dumb enough to use a centralized exchange, hold their crypto there, or even use the custodial crypto address to accept donations, obviously the government will direct those exchanges to freeze the accounts.

However, provided someone isn't a complete moron, and assuming that you are trying to step around government interference, why would they used a centralized exchange that requires KYC?

For $100 I can buy a hardware wallet, obscure my crypto transactions, and move crypto around relatively easy. Even if the government is tracking specific BTC via wallets & transactions they are monitoring, I would just need to convert it to XMR, and further obscure the trail from there.

Also, it is possible to sell XMR for cash in every single major city in Canada.

You can also use Atomic Swaps to transfer XMR to BTC and sell for fiat.
You can use decentralized exchanges to sell for fiat.
You can use P2P trading platforms to sell for fiat.

In a nutshell, it would be possible to move crypto around from wallet to wallet as needed, and sell for fiat as needed, especially if you want to sell for cash.

The fact that the government was sending orders to self custodial services asking them to 'freeze accounts' shows me that there is a massive level of ignorance across the board on how crypto works, which explains the sudden grab interest in thinking they can regulate it via updated legislation.

The more government intrusion you will see into crypto, the more services will become available helping people hide & obscure their movements.

I would assume a Government would just make it illegal to trade any crypto for fiat to anyone on pain of a decade in jail, except for through authorised banks.

I dont see any way inside a country that the transfer from crypto to fiat isnt the point where any half competent authoritarian regime doesnt control crypto

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Azure

I am seeing this getting said a lot and it is fascinating to read as it shows a massive ignorance of how crypto works.

There are hundreds of guides online that tell you how to get around this specific issue. If someone is dumb enough to use a centralized exchange, hold their crypto there, or even use the custodial crypto address to accept donations, obviously the government will direct those exchanges to freeze the accounts.

However, provided someone isn't a complete moron, and assuming that you are trying to step around government interference, why would they used a centralized exchange that requires KYC?

For $100 I can buy a hardware wallet, obscure my crypto transactions, and move crypto around relatively easy. Even if the government is tracking specific BTC via wallets & transactions they are monitoring, I would just need to convert it to XMR, and further obscure the trail from there.

Also, it is possible to sell XMR for cash in every single major city in Canada.

You can also use Atomic Swaps to transfer XMR to BTC and sell for fiat.
You can use decentralized exchanges to sell for fiat.
You can use P2P trading platforms to sell for fiat.

In a nutshell, it would be possible to move crypto around from wallet to wallet as needed, and sell for fiat as needed, especially if you want to sell for cash.

The fact that the government was sending orders to self custodial services asking them to 'freeze accounts' shows me that there is a massive level of ignorance across the board on how crypto works, which explains the sudden grab interest in thinking they can regulate it via updated legislation.

The more government intrusion you will see into crypto, the more services will become available helping people hide & obscure their movements.

Sounds complicated.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I would assume a Government would just make it illegal to trade any crypto for fiat to anyone on pain of a decade in jail, except for through authorised banks.

This is where I'm at on crypto. Governments will outlaw it, whether they're direct about it or it's under the guise of say, environmentalism, is irrelevant.

It is already too complicated for the general public to utilize, and governments can and will (IMO) add regulations to further complicate and deter those who can and are willing to grasp crypto.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I would assume a Government would just make it illegal to trade any crypto for fiat to anyone on pain of a decade in jail, except for through authorised banks.

I dont see any way inside a country that the transfer from crypto to fiat isnt the point where any half competent authoritarian regime doesnt control crypto

Its quite clear that you literally have no idea how Crypto works.

And reading through the court orders, its obvious the Government of Canada is scrambling as well.

On top of sending requests to custodial exchanges to freeze accounts associated with different wallets they were tracking (which makes sense), they also sent requests to self custodial wallets asking them to freeze the accounts. Anyone with even a small understanding of how crypto works knows this isn't possible.

To me this seems like the government just spouting off a bunch of stuff, then they realize they can't actually accomplish any of it so they claim they need more 'powers.' Because of the emotionally charged rhetoric flying around, people are inclined to give them more power without understanding any of it.

Just because you, as someone who has zero understanding on how crypto, custodial services, decentralized and centralized exchanges, atomic swaps, p2p trading, local trading, atms, cold storage, Bitcoin mixing, etc, etc works, doesn't mean that it isn't possibly completely obscure crypto transfers and covert it to fiat as needed. And trust me, there are many well motivated individuals within Canada & across the world who are willing to help do this.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Azure

Its quite clear that you literally have no idea how Crypto works.

And reading through the court orders, its obvious the Government of Canada is scrambling as well.

On top of sending requests to custodial exchanges to freeze accounts associated with different wallets they were tracking (which makes sense), they also sent requests to self custodial wallets asking them to freeze the accounts. Anyone with even a small understanding of how crypto works knows this isn't possible.

To me this seems like the government just spouting off a bunch of stuff, then they realize they can't actually accomplish any of it so they claim they need more 'powers.' Because of the emotionally charged rhetoric flying around, people are inclined to give them more power without understanding any of it.

Just because you, as someone who has zero understanding on how crypto, custodial services, decentralized and centralized exchanges, atomic swaps, p2p trading, local trading, atms, cold storage, Bitcoin mixing, etc, etc works, doesn't mean that it isn't possibly completely obscure crypto transfers and covert it to fiat as needed. And trust me, there are many well motivated individuals within Canada & across the world who are willing to help do this.

I have no idea about any you are talking about... but what odds would you place that at least someone among the 'well motivated' individuals is just going to scam these people and steal a good chunk of money.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

This is where I'm at on crypto. Governments will outlaw it, whether they're direct about it or it's under the guise of say, environmentalism, is irrelevant.

It is already too complicated for the general public to utilize, and governments can and will (IMO) add regulations to further complicate and deter those who can and are willing to grasp crypto.

This is false.

Governments stand to make a lot of tax income from taxing cryptocurrency, therefore they will be incentivized to make it legal and setup the proper regulatory framework for it.

All income, whether via buying, holding & eventually selling which falls under capital gains, and staking income, which quite possibly falls under standard income needs to be declared and is taxable.

There is a reason there are multiple centralized exchanges both registered and insured within Canada. While the tax law remains a bit complicated, if you handle your crypto purchases & ownership via the two methods I described above, both will be above ground.

The majority of people who are looking to get into crypto will do so completely on the legal side, and will pay taxes on it like everything else.

Just because a small percentage of people are using it for nefarious activities, doesn't mean that it will suddenly be outlawed. Billions of dollars in laundered fiat are floated through Canadian businesses & banks each year. Are governments going to ban the CDN because of this? No.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

Its quite clear that you literally have no idea how Crypto works.

And reading through the court orders, its obvious the Government of Canada is scrambling as well.

On top of sending requests to custodial exchanges to freeze accounts associated with different wallets they were tracking (which makes sense), they also sent requests to self custodial wallets asking them to freeze the accounts. Anyone with even a small understanding of how crypto works knows this isn't possible.

To me this seems like the government just spouting off a bunch of stuff, then they realize they can't actually accomplish any of it so they claim they need more 'powers.' Because of the emotionally charged rhetoric flying around, people are inclined to give them more power without understanding any of it.

Just because you, as someone who has zero understanding on how crypto, custodial services, decentralized and centralized exchanges, atomic swaps, p2p trading, local trading, atms, cold storage, Bitcoin mixing, etc, etc works, doesn't mean that it isn't possibly completely obscure crypto transfers and covert it to fiat as needed. And trust me, there are many well motivated individuals within Canada & across the world who are willing to help do this.

Would this not just be a legal notice to those possessing the wallets that they are not permitted to use them? If they do, they would be in breach of the order. What is the problem with that?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I have no idea about any you are talking about... but what odds would you place that at least someone among the 'well motivated' individuals is just going to scam these people and steal a good chunk of money.

Happens every single day, so I'd place the odds quite high, and given the desperation of the protestors, I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if it happened here.

Once BTC is sent to an address, there is no way to reverse the transaction.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Would this not just be a legal notice to those possessing the wallets that they are not permitted to use them? If they do, they would be in breach of the order. What is the problem with that?

Nobody knows who possesses the wallets. All you can do is track them if there is crypto being transferred into them. If you look on the blockchain they are just a bunch of numbers and letters.

The government literally has no access to them, and if the owners choose to trade the crypto into XMR or something else on a decentralized platform, the government can no longer track it.

This is the beauty of crypto. It removes government control & overreach over the financial system. For most people this means it can act as a hedge against inflation. To some it means they can preform criminal activities with it, but that isn't any different than criminal organizations using CDN to launder money through Canadian real estate.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Azure

Happens every single day, so I'd place the odds quite high, and given the desperation of the protestors, I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if it happened here.

Once BTC is sent to an address, there is no way to reverse the transaction.

Thank you for your posts. I have done a fair bit of research and reading/listening re Web 3/blockchain, so I definitely have a decent understanding of the broad concepts, but was really lacking on the "details". It seems that right now the only real threat (aside from your own bungling/errors) to BTC holdings is the actual internet being "shut down". There is obviously the volatility that is a big issue.

The suggestion of cash/gold-silver is, of course natural, but the bulkiness becomes a massive issue at any significant level beyond basic "necessities" money.

[Azure]

Even if the internet is shut down, holding your BTC in cold storage (Ledger wallet) won't affect anything. It will obviously remove the ability to trade it though, but at least you will still have access to what is rightfully yours.

Versus the government just freezing your bank accounts and you have no recourse left.

As for gold / silver, you won't actually 'hold' it will you? That is why it is inferior in my view.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Its quite clear that you literally have no idea how Crypto works.

And reading through the court orders, its obvious the Government of Canada is scrambling as well.

On top of sending requests to custodial exchanges to freeze accounts associated with different wallets they were tracking (which makes sense), they also sent requests to self custodial wallets asking them to freeze the accounts. Anyone with even a small understanding of how crypto works knows this isn't possible.

To me this seems like the government just spouting off a bunch of stuff, then they realize they can't actually accomplish any of it so they claim they need more 'powers.' Because of the emotionally charged rhetoric flying around, people are inclined to give them more power without understanding any of it.

Just because you, as someone who has zero understanding on how crypto, custodial services, decentralized and centralized exchanges, atomic swaps, p2p trading, local trading, atms, cold storage, Bitcoin mixing, etc, etc works, doesn't mean that it isn't possibly completely obscure crypto transfers and covert it to fiat as needed. And trust me, there are many well motivated individuals within Canada & across the world who are willing to help do this.

I dont think you get any of this, the Government can outlaw any crypto exchanges, they dont need a name, all of it gets closed, no ATM's, no shady corner stores offering crypto along with a selection of bongs and king sized rolling papers, all of it gets closed, the weak point is not the owner of the crypto its the owner of the fiat exchanging the crypto, and no one is going to willing help with anything once its illegal unless you are happy to pay them 50% on the dollar, at that point exchanging crypto is no different than laundering drug money, you can do it but it costs a fortune

[bootsnixon]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I dont think you get any of this, the Government can outlaw any crypto exchanges, they dont need a name, all of it gets closed, no ATM's, no shady corner stores offering crypto along with a selection of bongs and king sized rolling papers, all of it gets closed, the weak point is not the owner of the crypto its the owner of the fiat exchanging the crypto, and no one is going to willing help with anything once its illegal unless you are happy to pay them 50% on the dollar, at that point exchanging crypto is no different than laundering drug money, you can do it but it costs a fortune

Cryptocurrencies are borderless though. Some exchanges are attempting to work within the regulations of all countries they offer their services to. I think that is a good thing. Other exchanges simply work within the regulations of the country they are based out of. This does not make them shady.

Kucoin is one of the largest exchanges in the world and I believe, is considered quite reputable. It is based out of Singapore and it's business model does not require kyc. It could care less if Canada enacts the Emergency Measures Act nor would it know if crypto's were coming from there.