2022 Freedumb Convoy(s) Thread

[Sliver]

I hate being bald but I'd still take it over having a man bun. Maybe the sketch artist was just trying to humiliate by drawing that on him?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Gotta say, it's tough to see him wear the words ODIN on a sweatshirt when he has been at counter-protests in Central Alberta that were also linked to the Soldiers of Odin group.

Odin is a coursed word these days.

[Ozy_Flame]

True, although I probably wouldn't wear the sweater to a court proceeding. That can't help his cause.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

In the selfie video of Pat being arrested he is wearing a hat. Every picture and video I see him in he has a hat on. You saw one without?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1494730665404809218

it was apparently Chris barber. I’m an idiot. Sorry for the derail.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Yes, but it isn't so simple as that. Like I was saying it is complex. There are heaps of racists who like the Beatles, or hot dogs but that doesn't mean I am a racists because I like those things too.

You can want to end restrictions and not be racist, even though lots of racists want to end restrictions.

I am not trying to explain away the racists. They are there they are real, and there is overlap between the two groups. That is a matter of fact. But there can be folks who want to end restrictions and not be racist. Thats it. Thats my point.

What I take issue with is that there would seem to be a willingness to tolerate racism that is on the same side. Maybe I'm wrong about that (I certainly won't claim to be closely monitoring social media on this), but from what I've read I've seen a bit of 'Pat King doesn't speak for us,' and not any 'Pat King's views are abhorrent and he and anyone who thinks like him has no place in our movement.'

It comes across as more 'keep your confederate flags out of sight, it makes us look bad,' rather than 'if you think flying a confederate flag in Canada is okay, then you need to leave this protest and never come back.'

Maybe the people there who were strongly anti-racist didn't feel like calling out the racists was a safe thing to do, or maybe they just didn't have the sort of social media voice that got amplified to the point that someone not deeply engaged in social media would pick up on it. That's at least partly on online members of the movement not amplifying those voices above the racist ones. Is there some traditional media problems here where they're eager to amplify the racist voices and not so much any anti-racist voices? Maybe... but again those anti-racist voices need to exist in the first place.

But I think the political landscape in Canada is such that there's a lot of cynicism about right-wing parties and movements, that they're always willing to court the extreme right, giving lip-service to disavowing the extreme beliefs while dog-whistling that those beliefs are okay. Are the right held to a higher standard in that regard than the left? Maybe. Does the right have a track-record that would invite that sort of skepticism? Definitely. But they never seem to go the extra kilometer of actively purging those elements and making them unwelcome in their movements.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by octothorp

What I take issue with is that there would seem to be a willingness to tolerate racism that is on the same side. Maybe I'm wrong about that (I certainly won't claim to be closely monitoring social media on this), but from what I've read I've seen a bit of 'Pat King doesn't speak for us,' and not any 'Pat King's views are abhorrent and he and anyone who thinks like him has no place in our movement.'

It comes across as more 'keep your confederate flags out of sight, it makes us look bad,' rather than 'if you think flying a confederate flag in Canada is okay, then you need to leave this protest and never come back.'

Maybe the people there who were strongly anti-racist didn't feel like calling out the racists was a safe thing to do, or maybe they just didn't have the sort of social media voice that got amplified to the point that someone not deeply engaged in social media would pick up on it. That's at least partly on online members of the movement not amplifying those voices above the racist ones. Is there some traditional media problems here where they're eager to amplify the racist voices and not so much any anti-racist voices? Maybe... but again those anti-racist voices need to exist in the first place.

But I think the political landscape in Canada is such that there's a lot of cynicism about right-wing parties and movements, that they're always willing to court the extreme right, giving lip-service to disavowing the extreme beliefs while dog-whistling that those beliefs are okay. Are the right held to a higher standard in that regard than the left? Maybe. Does the right have a track-record that would invite that sort of skepticism? Definitely. But they never seem to go the extra kilometer of actively purging those elements and making them unwelcome in their movements.

This is the heart of the issue, and a part of the reason that I am very glad not in support of any of the ideas those protests. The involvement of white supremists should be intollerable, and not ignored explained away.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

True, although I probably wouldn't wear the sweater to a court proceeding. That can't help his cause.

It can't be a coincidence.

[DevilsAdvocate]

I think there is a misunderstanding of who the people in Ottawa were based on personal experience.

You talk to your friends and family, and they are anti-"mask mandates" or anti-"vaccine mandates" and you know they are not racists. They are just so sick of this pandemic and because Uncle Jack posted that the vaccine corrupts your DNA and prevents you from getting to heaven, you just don't want to take that chance.

And you have taken that personal experience of what people who are against COVID measures and applied it to the people who were in Ottawa. But you can't do that. This was organized by known white supremacists and the people who came follow these people as leaders. There is a reason the downtown was littered with hate propaganda. There is a reason why they carried Canadian flags with swastikas markered on. There is a reason they targeted the BIPOC community for harassment and assault.

I said I was postering last night in a group of 6. One person said that she works in a Chinese restaurant on Bank street. On day 3 of the protest, a group of 4 convoy participants walked in and yelled some very racist insults before saying "we will be back and we will kill every last one of you". Restaurant immediately closed. Three weeks later and they are still closed.

It was not a small minority of the people here who were racist. It was pervasive. But it is hard for people who were not here to understand that because of their own personal experience.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

it was apparently Chris barber. I’m an idiot. Sorry for the derail.

He may not be bald, but he certainly is a fat ####

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

I think there is a misunderstanding of who the people in Ottawa were based on personal experience.

You talk to your friends and family, and they are anti-"mask mandates" or anti-"vaccine mandates" and you know they are not racists. They are just so sick of this pandemic and because Uncle Jack posted that the vaccine corrupts your DNA and prevents you from getting to heaven, you just don't want to take that chance.

And you have taken that personal experience of what people who are against COVID measures and applied it to the people who were in Ottawa. But you can't do that. This was organized by known white supremacists and the people who came follow these people as leaders. There is a reason the downtown was littered with hate propaganda. There is a reason why they carried Canadian flags with swastikas marketed on. There is a reason they targeted the BIPOC community for harassment and assault.

I said I was postering last night in a group of 6. One person said that she works in a Chinese restaurant on Bank street. On day 3 of the protest, a group of 4 convoy participants walked in and yelled some very racist insults before saying "we will be back and we will kill every last one of you". Restaurant immediately closed. Three weeks later and they are still closed.

It was not a small minority of the people here who were racist. It was pervasive. But it is hard for people who were not here to understand that because of their own personal experience.

DA, a bit OT, but have what is happening at Rideau Centre?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

DA, a bit OT, but have what is happening at Rideau Centre?

Shoplifter with a weapon.

[djsFlames]

The actual convoy crowd was littered with bad apples.

The people pledging support to the convoy from home are probably of more of the moderate crowd. They had the sense to not abandon their jobs and remain with their families and tend to their responsibilities, which says enough about them.

But the people at home are also taking offense for comments directed at the convoy crowd when they shouldn't. They shouldn't be associating with the convoy to begin with.

What people are essentially saying is they're not who you believe they are. The media isn't planting actors and editing clips.

Publicly pledging allegiance to these people was shortsighted, if you're a sensible person who is tired of mandates. They hooked you with the freedom talk, but they aren't the poster boys/girls you want for that movement. Their intentions are not sincere nor honest here.

The point is... don't throw your support behind something without properly vetting it first.


eg. People at home (who I know) wanted Trudeau to come out and have a discussion with protestors. To discuss how we will get back to normalcy in a set amount of time.

People that traveled thousands of miles to parliament (not all, but many) were looking to coerce Trudeau to sign a document to forfeit his powers to essentially a group of unknowns. Some wanted to mount his head on a hockey stick in their snow banks.

There is a clear distinction in those two objectives.

Just because a group shares your view on one prevailing issue doesn't mean they're who you would associate yourself with in the best of times. In this case, they're the sort of people you'd warn your children to stay away from.

It's just mindblowing how the pandemic has some level headed people bunking up with the likes of these individuals.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Pat King's surety on cross examination.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1496164234828431365

I once had a friend seriously tell us that he was going to argue in court that he should be allowed to speed because the police are allowed to speed.

[wretched34]

King's Defence made the argument that King would be exposed to more people if incarcerated, which would result in the higher likelihood that he get, and spread Covid....

This man just organized a massive illegal occupation of the nations capital, under the guise of protesting covid restrictions because he deemed them unconstitutional, but then wants to use covid as a defense to stay out of prison for his actions?

I'm not even mad, that's impressive...

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

tying moderates and extremists together just because you disagree with them is Disney movie levels of ambiguity.

flatting peoples motivations as to reify them is poor critical analysis.

“It is a frequent vice of radical polemic to assert, and even to believe, that once you have found the lowest motive for an antagonist, you have identified the correct one.”
― Christopher Hitchens

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

“It is a frequent vice of radical polemic to assert, and even to believe, that once you have found the lowest motive for an antagonist, you have identified the correct one.”
― Christopher Hitchens

standing ovation

[White Out 403]

So many words googled.

[ThatsWhatSheSaid]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I just would like to say that this is divisive rhetoric that is fostering a lot of hatred and division in this country. I know a lot of people that support this convoy and they are the furthest thing from white supremist yet it's always very convenient to lump anyone that doesn't agree with the far left as that. I'm starting to take offense to a lot of the posts here that are painting groups with broad strokes.

You are ashamed of "we" because an extremely small handful of Calgarians posted some "make only white children" propaganda? How many people do you think were involved in that? Ten? Twenty? Should Muslims be ashamed of themselves because a very small faction of them are terrorists? When will people realize that we can't control everyone and there are always going to be some bad apples yet it seems the left has done a really good job of creating a rhetoric that if you aren't aligned with them then you are a white supremist, bigot, anti-LGBTQ. Honestly I find some of your post misguided and offensive quite frankly.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He also used pipeline protests as an example of some noble protests when they are no different than this convoy. Worse in fact as the recent ones in BC have shown with the violence and destruction. I'm just saying that his post comes from a far left point of view upset that some people are calling out both sides. Clearly in his view this is all about the far right and anyone supporting the far right is misguided despite the fact that the far left has it's own issues as it's leading us into socialism, taking away rights and freedoms.

I got vaccinated and I don't support the convoy. I'm not left yet I don't support white supremacy, anti-abortion, anti-LGBTQ, etc. Heck I don't support any sort of protest because they are borne of angry people which is always easily misdirected. However I am very concerned about that the far left has gone too far and is attempting to silence any opposition by branding it with identity politics. I ####ing despise being lumped into any unsavory group just because I am not far left leaning but this is what the far left wants because I do not support them or share all their beliefs. It's a big problem right now.

This convoy protest has been an embarrassment for the entire country. Far left, far right, middle, etc. You only have to go to the Beaverton's latest articles on this to see how easy it is to sit back from afar and laugh at what has transpired over the last month in this country.

You've made a lot of assumptions about me here, while simultaneously saying it's convenient to lump anyone with an opposing view into the same category. I am not far left, or even left....I am actually a lifelong conservative (the moderate right that you seem to identify as). I'd encourage you to re-read the few posts I've made because I'm not sure where I said that everyone who supported the convoy was automatically a white supremacist. My posts have been long, so maybe that's part of the problem.

I too, know good people who are supporting the convoy, and I'm saying it's misguided. I've said on multiple occasions that this is not a partisan issue. The point of my posts was that it's concerning to see people from all walks of life (politics, race, etc.) support the organizers who clearly have a far right agenda. That people are either being wilfully misled or willing to look past the morality of who they stand with purely for a single issue. You bring up Muslim people. Do you honestly think the majority of convoy sympathizers would be extending the same latitude to the convoy if they were Islamist making demands of our elected government?

Yes I am ashamed. Because it doesn't matter if it's 10, 20, or hundreds - the fact that these fringe elements have resurfaced in our city in a very public way because they are emboldened by the lack of condemnation from ordinary people is what makes me ashamed. It is not ok to be selectively apathetic.

You also made an assumption that I think pipeline protests are noble. I actually do not and am against them. I was bringing it up as an example for people to examine why these fringe elements chose this particular issue about mandates to support in a very public way. Is it possible that they knew they could use widespread fatigue and frustration across the country as a way to advance their agenda under the guise of being anti-establishment and anti-mandate?

I agree that the far left also poses problems in society, but I disagree that this is the issue here. I'm saying as a moderate conservative with family and friends who share similar political identities, that we are all vocally condemning this whole thing because of its true origins and intent. That none of us want to see some of the rhetoric coming with this convoy to be normalized and left unchecked.

By the way, I'm also not male. And as a woman, I absolutely loathe far left radical feminists who alienate men and women alike with their extreme views and actually hurt the cause because they breed resentment and dissent. So when those radical groups attempt to organize protests, as a woman, even if I believe in the particular cause they are advocating (e.g. pro-choice), I would stay far away and not give them a dime or support because I don't want to be mistaken for a man-hating angry feminist.

All of us are tired of mandates. Every single one of us. But most of us understand these measures are temporary and were already close to being on their way out, so really, what was the point of this whole thing? Could it be that it's not actually about mandates?
Do I think the various levels of government have bungled up how they have handled the pandemic? Yes. Did I feel some of the restrictions no longer made sense? Yes. Do I feel the need to throw my support behind an extremist group to give me a voice? No. There are many of us on the right, along with many on the left, who have very different politics but can still be united in our beliefs in democracy and how civil society works. We hold different views on policies, but stand together on morality and ethics.

Buying into dangerous rhetoric doesn't happen with one issue, it seeps in over a long period of time of indoctrination, especially those who are particularly vulnerable because they are disenfranchised with whatever the status quo is at the time. People don't become radicalized overnight, but it starts with making moral concessions on singular issues. It is our duty as Canadians to condemn fringe elements and not play into partisan politics. The fringe needs to go back into their caves and should not be given a platform to recruit more followers, much less be given public support.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

And you have taken that personal experience of what people who are against COVID measures and applied it to the people who were in Ottawa. But you can't do that. This was organized by known white supremacists and the people who came follow these people as leaders. There is a reason the downtown was littered with hate propaganda. There is a reason why they carried Canadian flags with swastikas markered on.There is a reason they targeted the BIPOC community for harassment and assault.

The flag with a swastika included text comparing Trudeau to Hitler. The people who made it were almost certainly idiots. But they weren’t Nazis. There are enough actual disturbing facts about participants without the media peddling this sort of sensationalistic half-truth.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Shoplifter with a weapon.

Yeah, likely totally unrelated to the convoy. But it really, really, really sucks. First day of re-opening and they immediately have to shut down and evacuate. Can't life please just get back to normal?