Can we talk about the cap?

[Jason14h]

I'm going to go slightly different/more extreme - Based on $28m free space

Lucic traded to Seattle - 5.25
Backlund traded - 5.35
Hanifin traded - 4.95

Total Cap : 43.5M

Gaudreau - 8 x $10.5 (Probably low but if he likes the team maybe sacrifices a bit and gets the 8th year)
Tkachuk - 8 x $9.5
Mangiapane - 5 x $6
Kylington 6 x $4.5 (I imagine after 1 good year he wants some security and cash in pocket
Ruzicka $1

Remaining 13.5

Sign the third pairing for 6 million combined

Remaining 7.5

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Dube - Monahan - Toffoli
Mangiapane- TBD - Coleman
TBD - Ruzicka - TBD
TBD

Kylington - Tanev
Gubby - Zaddy
TBD - Andersson

Markstrom
Vladar

Now there is where it get dicey - You have 7.5 million but need a 3rd line checking center, and another D

If you promote one of the young D from within for 1 million, you have 6.5. Fill out 4th line with two 1 million guys and you are left 4.5

So with the assets you get from Hanifin and Backlund you get a cheaper, younger, and maybe better 2nd/3rd line center (You could also use these assets to attach to Monahan and move if needed and go after 2 new centers - but that may be harder)

You can probably also upgrade on Dube depending on what he shows with the assets.

Loosing Hanifin would hurt, but if you feel one of our young D are ready to make the team, this may be the best position of strength to deal from

Point is - Lots of creative ways to keep Mangi, MT, and JG. IF they want to be here

[getbak]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

How does a signing bonus work in a long term contract? When does it get paid?

Lucic next year has a $3m signing bonus and $1m salary. If you pay the signing bonus up front, some non-spending team might want him to get the floor. $1m salary and a $6m cap hit. Its an Arizona special.

It depends on the contract. Usually, the bonus is paid on July 1, but sometimes, it's at a different time, and sometimes it's paid in partial installments. IIRC, the trade that brought him here wasn't until late July because his bonus was paid in mid-July and the Flames wanted to wait until the Oilers had paid it.

Keep in mind that he has an 8 team trade list until the end of June and it becomes a 10 team trade list after that, so Arizona is probably off the table unless he wants to play in a broom closet.


I could definitely see interest in Lucic from teams with low budgets and lots of excess cap space who are looking for veteran leadership on a young team.

I wonder if he'd accept a trade to Ottawa to mentor the other Tkachuk brother?

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I'm going to go slightly different/more extreme - Based on $28m free space

Lucic traded to Seattle - 5.25 <---Highly unlikely, no team is going to take Looch without something really good going back. He's only got one year left before his contract and cap is removed. Then, he'll retire after that or he can still be with the Flames for cheap.
Backlund traded - 5.35 <--- Not a chance with Sutter there. He's fine as a second/3 line center
Hanifin traded - 4.95 <--- Iffy - but Tre seems to like Hanifin.

Total Cap : 43.5M

Gaudreau - 8 x $10.5 (Probably low but if he likes the team maybe sacrifices a bit and gets the 8th year)
Tkachuk - 8 x $9.5 <--- He's RFA - so, let's see what Tre can do.
Mangiapane - 5 x $6 <--- No way Mangi is getting that as an RFA.
Kylington 6 x $4.5 (I imagine after 1 good year he wants some security and cash in pocket
Ruzicka $1

Remaining 13.5

Sign the third pairing for 6 million combined

Remaining 7.5

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Dube - Monahan - Toffoli
Mangiapane- TBD - Coleman
TBD - Ruzicka - TBD
TBD

Kylington - Tanev
Gubby - Zaddy
TBD - Andersson

Markstrom
Vladar

Now there is where it get dicey - You have 7.5 million but need a 3rd line checking center, and another D

If you promote one of the young D from within for 1 million, you have 6.5. Fill out 4th line with two 1 million guys and you are left 4.5

So with the assets you get from Hanifin and Backlund you get a cheaper, younger, and maybe better 2nd/3rd line center (You could also use these assets to attach to Monahan and move if needed and go after 2 new centers - but that may be harder)

You can probably also upgrade on Dube depending on what he shows with the assets.

Loosing Hanifin would hurt, but if you feel one of our young D are ready to make the team, this may be the best position of strength to deal from

Point is - Lots of creative ways to keep Mangi, MT, and JG. IF they want to be here

See above...

[Kovaz]

It's gonna be tricky. The way I see it, there are 3 scenarios:


1) If one of Tkachuk or Gaudreau leaves, there are no cap issues. We've got enough wingers now to still assemble a solid top line, just need Pelletier or another prospect to step up and give us 9 top-9 forwards


2) If we re-sign both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, then dump at least one of Lucic/Monahan without much cap coming back, we can make it work. In this scenario you're hoping either Ruzicka or Dube can step into a 3C role (if Monahan leaves)


3) If we re-sign them both, and can't make a cap dump work, we probably can't afford Mangiapane and maybe Kylington outside of a bridge deal, and our 3rd D-pair is gonna be a step back

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by CSharp

See above...

Well if the Flames let JG or MT leave to keep Backlund then BT should be fired on the spot.

They will need to make some hard decisions.

Great teams let the middle players walk/move on. You win with your stars.

Flames have too many mid paid players. Some have to go

And why would no team take Lucic? He literally makes 1$ million in cash next year. For leadership and protection of rookies/younger players lots of teams who arent at the cap would love Looch.

You didn't really add anything other then stating your opinions as "facts"

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Not with you or anyone else on moving a major chemistry guy/glue guy like Looch at the TDL at all. Do you hear the crowd when he's on the ice? He's still a HVY Weight champ to boot. Hits like a truck. At this stage can't see Monahan moved at TDL for chemistry reasons either and he's been killer on face offs. Believe it or not after Backlund, Monahan is now the 2nd longest team tenured player.

Next off season is next off season and we'll see if Lucic retires or what. But the way these guys are playing and if anyone should be named Captain it's Looch.

I'm not advocating to trade either (at least not until off-season). Just pointing out the additional benefit for a non-cap team in taking an overpaid but still useful player

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Well if the Flames let JG or MT leave to keep Backlund then BT should be fired on the spot.

They will need to make some hard decisions.

Great teams let the middle players walk/move on. You win with your stars.

Flames have too many mid paid players. Some have to go

And why would no team take Lucic? He literally makes 1$ million in cash next year. For leadership and protection of rookies/younger players lots of teams who arent at the cap would love Looch.

You didn't really add anything other then stating your opinions as "facts"

Lucic and Backlund both have a 10 team trade list. That might make it more difficult to trade them. Even if a team would love to add the players, the players might not want to move, and they negotiated that right in their contracts. In addition, you are going to lose a decent player and might have to sweeten the pot.

As a hypothetical if Tkachuk/Gaudreau ask for a league max contract, do you keep them? I don't expect them to ask for it, but I also don't think that signing them would depend on other players on the roster. Management will start juggling contracts once they get them signed.

---

As for the OP in this thread we have $27M and likely we will have different(cheaper) personnel on the 3rd pairing. You also forgot that we're paying Valimaki $400k to play in the AHL, so he will only cost us $1.1M more. Maybe we could bring in Giordano/Gudbranson as a 3rd pairing vet on a value contract.

As for Ritchie/Richardson/Lewis their replacements will come at a very similar number so there won't be any cap savings there. If the team needs to free up some cap space they will start by looking at moving Dube(assuming he doesn't catch fire before the end of the season), a Monahan buyout could also be an option if you are unable to free up the money required.

The other option could be to trade one of our quality assets like Mangiapane/Toffoli/Andersson/Hanifin/Kylington for a package including a top prospect/upcoming player and draft picks. Almost like what we did when we downgraded Hamilton to a younger Hanifin, but there are a lot of parts involved in those trades.

[chubeyr1]

Cap space for the Flames will not be easy to come by. What would I do?

Let Zadarov and Gudbransson go. 5.7 million dollars.

Replaced by Connor Mackey and Valamaki 2,462,500. 3,237,500 savings on the cap.

If the cap goes up as suggested by one million you now have 4,237,500 in cap space.

Troy Brouwer buyout comes off the books 1,500,000. Cap space now 5,737,500

New contract for Gaudreau 9,750,000. A raise of 3 million. Cap space left 2,737,500.

Tkachuk resigns for 9,700,000. Peanuts left over for cap space.

Calgary needs money to resign Mangiapane, Kylington, and Ruzicka.

Ruzicka is easy. Probably happy to be getting an NHL check at this point.

Kylington is going to cost. As far as I am concerned he is a top pairing Dman. Or at least playing that role.

I think he will take less than Tanev. 3,500,000. 2,750,000 dollar raise we don’t have cap space for.

Mangiapane? I would peg his next contract at 5,000,000. A 2,600,000 raise.

So Calgary needs to come up with roughly 5,350,000 of cap space.

So Calgary needs to make a trade for the cap to work. Or do the Vegas and

Tampa things to be compliant. Ltir bs.

Trading guys like Ritchie, Richardson, or Lewis, solves nothing. Prospects coming up probably make a little more than they do.

A trade of Monahan, Backlund, or Lucic, solves this problem. For their full cap hit. We probably would have to add a sweetener in any trade like that. Yet do able. A second round pick should be enough. Maybe a B prospect too.
That said if Gaudreau does not sign with us we should be under the cap fairly easily. I say the same for Tkachuk as well.

My thoughts on trying to make the cap work.

This is not an opinion peace. Not judging players. Just trying to make the cap work.

Where else can we find the cap space?

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

So Calgary needs to come up with roughly 5,350,000 of cap space.

That's Lucic, who is eminently tradeable -- especially after his signing bonus. If only it's that easy.

[TheKurgan]

It is imperative that we sign both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, they have great chemistry and keeping our top line together should be priority #1 in the off season.

Resign priorities
-Gaudreau/Tkachuk for >10mil x 8yrs each(6mil+ in cap needed).
-Mangiapane is likely getting a double in salary (2.5mil in cap needed)
-Kylington hopefully can be signed for Zadorov money (3 mil in cap needed)
Total extra cap needed about 12mil

Easy cap gains
- 1 mil with increased cap
- 1.5 mil for Brouwer
- 2.25 mil by swaping out Zadorov for Valimaki
- 1 mil bringing in Mackie for Gudbranson
that only gets you half the way there.

So that leaves us with having to trade Monahan (6.375mil) and maybe even Dube (2.3mil) and replacing them with Petterson/Zary/Pelletier/Phillips.

Anyway you cut it if the Flames are going to resign Gaudreau/Tkachuk/Mangiapane/Kylington we are going to have to bring in a bunch of rookies or league min guys next year.

[Dude Where's Makar?]

Lucic replaced by Pelletier would be one way of saving money. I'm not sure on what the cost would be, but that's something I would strongly pursue and gauge the price.

If Monahan costs a lot to trade I would rather just buyout and have the 2million penalty the following year.

I think Gudbranson needs to be resigned, but Zadorov needs to walk. Replace him with Mackey or Valimaki and there's some more savings.

It's going to be hard getting our big four all signed, but it's super important. I don't want this dragging out to the wire like Johnny's last contract.

[bigrangy]

If Gaudreau and Tkachuk want to stay, then you sign them and incentivize some other team to take Lucic and/or Monahan.

If one of them doesn’t, then there’s no problem.

For the rest of this season, next season doesn’t matter. All about winning now.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Renegitiating contracts is an option too

Do you have the article in the CBA to refer to? Unless something drastically changed contracts have not had the option to be renegotiated since 2005.

[GioforPM]

Just terminate the bad contracts like SJ did.

[gunnner]

I trade Backlund and Hanafin to make it work.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by gunnner

I trade Backlund and Hanafin to make it work.

The Hanafin suggestion raises an interesting point: This team has some sweetheart deals and Hanafin is one of them. Are he an Andersson any less than 6 mln on the open market right now? And let's not even mention Lindholm, because I don't want to jinx the most magical deal in hockey and make it vanish in a puff of smoke like it should.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Just terminate the bad contracts like SJ did.

We need to frame Lucic into pouring allergens into Monahan's laundry. Lucic terminated, Monahan LTIR until game 1 of playoffs.

[Classic_Sniper]

Great thread. I’ve been talking about cap issues since last summer. It’s actually a big reason why I was hoping Monahan would be moved last offseason, to free up $6M for the impending cap crunch. Maybe I’m just weird for always looking ahead at cap implications and future cap scenarios, but it’s wise to look ahead so you’re not boxed into a corner.

In my opinion, with the way the Toffoli acquisition went down. I think it’s almost assured the Flames will have to now move a big contract or 2 just to fit the 4 big free agents. Before thr trade I thought, ok, maybe management trades or buys Monahan out and the Flames can comfortably afford everyone and maybe have something leftover to make improvements. But post trade, now I’m thinking, maybe a Hanifin and/or Dube contract is fair game now. Likely no long term deal for Kylington just yet. Obviously Lucic if any team is interested, but a Lucic buyout doesn’t help much.

The real question is, how good do the Flames want to be and how much does this team want to improve? For instance, Sure, the Flames could sign the big 4 and go with the bare minimum for the rest of roster. But do the Flames want to bring a guy like Gudbranson back or do we go with the league minimum option? So many fascinating questions...

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

It's gonna be tricky. The way I see it, there are 3 scenarios:


1) If one of Tkachuk or Gaudreau leaves, there are no cap issues. We've got enough wingers now to still assemble a solid top line, just need Pelletier or another prospect to step up and give us 9 top-9 forwards


2) If we re-sign both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, then dump at least one of Lucic/Monahan without much cap coming back, we can make it work. In this scenario you're hoping either Ruzicka or Dube can step into a 3C role (if Monahan leaves)


3) If we re-sign them both, and can't make a cap dump work, we probably can't afford Mangiapane and maybe Kylington outside of a bridge deal, and our 3rd D-pair is gonna be a step back

I see it being number two unless one of our big two are dead set to get out of here.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Well if the Flames let JG or MT leave to keep Backlund then BT should be fired on the spot.

Even if one of JG or MT leaves and Backlund stays it won’t be because management chose Backlund over the stars. It will be because they don’t want the deal Calgary offers.