[Trade] Toffoli to Flames for 2022 1st *, 2023 5th, Heineman, and Pitlick

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

- The team has a strong record that would be even stronger if not for the COVID swoon
- They have a coach with a record of winning cups
- They have a team who's core is in their prime
- They identified a clear need within their forward group
- They identified a way to address that need for a relatively low acquisition cost given the probability of mid 20s 1st rounders being impact players
- By acquiring that player, they improved both the 3rd and 4th lines, as well as their powerplay.
- That player doesn't just improve their team for this year, but gives them flexibility for the next 2 years thanks to a very affordable cap hit

Another benefit to this move is it lights a fire under Coleman and Eatbread to keep up their level of play, knowing there's a capable 2nd liner who can step in and play on that line at any time.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'm one of the gloomiest Flames fans around...

Hold my beer...

This is what we've all been waiting for FFS. Get on board already. This team might not win it all, but they sure as hell look good enough to do it so get excited. Otherwise what is the point of being a fan?

Right on the money my morose compatriot! This team is exciting and just added a player that really completes the lineup. This is a time when we should all be excited about the immediate future and let the chips fall in the offseason. Get behind this team and enjoy the ride. This is going to be a lot of fun from here on out. This team has positioned itself as a contender if it can stay healthy.

[Buff]

I'm still not sure this trade happened. I mean, Treliving doesn't make big trades in the middle of the season. Clearly this was a desperation move, right? We're doomed.
/s

[icarus]

Originally Posted by getbak

https://twitter.com/user/status/1493637687357624324

Kudos to the cameraman for snapping the perfect Pizza 73 shot.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

There are two kinds of trades:

1. Sacrificing the future for now
2. Investing in the future for future

Guess which one of those trades tends to look better in hindsight.

Originally Posted by jjgallow

That is why it so rarely makes sense to spend, rather than invest.

Sure, most trades don't result on a Stanley Cup. That doesn't mean they were bad. We're dealing with probabilities here. Does Toffoli increase the expected value of Stanley Cups won more than the assets given up?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Cool, so, if you don't want an answer, in the future you can avoid it by not asking the question.

People getting a little emotional around here.

Relax and continue your celebrations. We'll chat later.

Indeed I was asking the question to point out how silly the concept of a "true opinion" is. Glad you caught that.

I look forward to you telling us all how you were right when the Flames don't win the cup. Fun way to be a fan.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by D as in David

I have an opinion (true or not) that the poster made up "true opinion". Is this a thing? I hope not and I'll be really mad if it is.

The concept of true opinion is something that shows up in the works of some philosophers.

So maybe that's where he/she got this.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Indeed I was asking the question to point out how silly the concept of a "true opinion" is. Glad you caught that.

I look forward to you telling us all how you were right when the Flames don't win the cup. Fun way to be a fan.

Right, we can bump this on draft day then lol.

The true impact may never be known but let's just say the Jokinen trade is a lot less popular now than it was then, and he was younger.

If the Flames win the cup or even make it to the finals with Toffoli (they won't) I will happily take my lumps

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

If the Flames win the cup or even make it to the finals with Toffoli (they won't) I will happily take my lumps

JoJo Psychic right here.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Right, we can bump this on draft day then lol.

The true impact may never be known but let's just say the Jokinen trade is a lot less popular now than it was then, and he was younger.

If the Flames win the cup or even make it to the finals with Toffoli (they won't) I will happily take my lumps

The only Jokinen trade that was not popular was the one that sent him and Prust out for Higgins and Kotalik.

Flames sure missed out on Brandon Gormley and his 58 career games.

Dude if you want to bring up a trade to lament bring up the Hamonic move. It happened under the current regime, cost the Flames a serviceable NHL dman in Dobson, limited their prospect pool, and they won 1 playoff game with him in the lineup for 3 years and lost him for nothing. They traded a riskier pick that was close to being 2nd overall as a game 82 win had then move past the Hurricanes who did win that 2nd pick.

What are you talking about the Jokinen trade? That team failed because of critical injuries but they were poised to go on a big run before Langkow, Beetuzzi, Bourque, Regehr, and Phaneuf we’re all hurt

[looooob]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Right, we can bump this on draft day then lol.

The true impact may never be known but let's just say the Jokinen trade is a lot less popular now than it was then, and he was younger.

I think I'm confused. if you are saying that Jokinen was younger then than he is now, I agree. otherwise wasn't he a little over 30 when the Flames acquired him ? (ie roughly the same as Toffoli but if anything a little bit older than Toffoli who is 29?)

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Exactly.

I agree with you (lol) that we were bent over on this trade. Sad day, but by the time people realize how sad, we'll be in a new era.


Trading our first round pick for a 30 year-old with 9 goals?

Awesome guys great work.



Could we make it worse? Yes. We could arrange it in such a way that it is possible for this first round pick to become Connor Bedard. Why anyone would role anything over to 2023 with no lottery protection is beyond me.


Anyway I know y'all are excited now. Glad people are happy. But the reality is that this is so poorly planned it makes the Oli Jokinen trade look smart.

Here's hoping the Flames prove me wrong and win the cup, but it's going to take more than 9 goals for a team that is notorious for getting rolled in the playoffs.

lol you say 9 goals like it was over 82 games...and he was 2nd on the Habs in scoring

Was on pace for over 40 goal season last year

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Trading our first round pick for a 30 year-old with 9 goals?

Did you miss the part where he has 17 points in his last 18 games?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Right, we can bump this on draft day then lol.

The true impact may never be known but let's just say the Jokinen trade is a lot less popular now than it was then, and he was younger.

If the Flames win the cup or even make it to the finals with Toffoli (they won't) I will happily take my lumps

I still don’t understand this thought process. Looking forward to bumping old threads for an “I told ya so.” There must be more to being a fan than that for you, isn’t there?

You understand that if the Flames win the cup or make the finals, nobody is going to give you lumps, right? Nobody is going to care about you and what your opinion was in February. It won’t cross anyone’s mind.

The fact is, you’re taking the easy route, because no transaction is giving any team a lock to win the cup. Colorado has the best odds in the league right now at 17%. You could just as easily say Toffoli would not be the difference between Colorado winning the cup and not, and you’d probably be right because the odds are always in your favour.

It’s such a sad, lazy way to follow a team. But if siding with the odds just at the chance to be right is more fun than hope, then by all means, be right. Nobody is going to remember or care if you are but you.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s such a sad, lazy way to follow a team. But if siding with the odds just at the chance to be right is more fun than hope, then by all means, be right.

It's not a great way to be a fan, but it's an even worse way to run a team. A GM who bets on his team not winning the cup will most often be right, and will also never win a cup except possibly by accident.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Right, we can bump this on draft day then lol.

The true impact may never be known but let's just say the Jokinen trade is a lot less popular now than it was then, and he was younger.

If the Flames win the cup or even make it to the finals with Toffoli (they won't) I will happily take my lumps

Sure let's look at the Jokinen deal, which included a much higher pick (13th overall).
2009-Mar-04 Traded from Phoenix Coyotes with round 3 pick in the 2009 draft (Josh Birkholz) to Calgary Flames for Matthew Lombardi, Brandon Prust and round 1 pick in the 2010 draft

That pick ended up being Brandon Gormley. So at the end of the day what did the Flames really give up?

As for the rest of your post, if you are going to be that guy that enjoys being right because the Flames don't make the final - don't bother. Because they probably won't. So you won't be impressing anyone when you pat yourself on the back for being "right".

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The only Jokinen trade that was not popular was the one that sent him and Prust out for Higgins and Kotalik.

Flames sure missed out on Brandon Gormley and his 58 career games.

Dude if you want to bring up a trade to lament bring up the Hamonic move. It happened under the current regime, cost the Flames a serviceable NHL dman in Dobson, limited their prospect pool, and they won 1 playoff game with him in the lineup for 3 years and lost him for nothing. They traded a riskier pick that was close to being 2nd overall as a game 82 win had then move past the Hurricanes who did win that 2nd pick.

What are you talking about the Jokinen trade? That team failed because of critical injuries but they were poised to go on a big run before Langkow, Beetuzzi, Bourque, Regehr, and Phaneuf we’re all hurt

Was Tarasenko according to every major scout out there including Button and locals.

They also traded away their 2nd round pick that year, and the highest rated for that was in fact, Tyler Tofoli.

But I'm sure this will go much better (seeing as it's a "different regime", without any Sutter influence unlike back then...).

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sorry to side track, but how on earth are the wings only the 10th worst team? Seider and Raymond are excellent rookies.

Maybe, just maybe, two players aren't enough to make a good team.

Just a theory.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Maybe, just maybe, two players aren't enough to make a good team.

Just a theory.

Edmonton says: Naaaaahhh!!!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't think you get to decide what makes for a true opinion and what doesn't.
Emotion and hope may not be part of your process, but they are a part of being a fan.

But I'll play.
The logical thought process is as follows:
- The team has a strong record that would be even stronger if not for the COVID swoon
- They have a coach with a record of winning cups
- They have a team who's core is in their prime
- They identified a clear need within their forward group
- They identified a way to address that need for a relatively low acquisition cost given the probability of mid 20s 1st rounders being impact players
- By acquiring that player, they improved both the 3rd and 4th lines, as well as their powerplay.
- That player doesn't just improve their team for this year, but gives them flexibility for the next 2 years thanks to a very affordable cap hit


What is not logical about that?

It doesn't match his opinion - therefore illogical, and clearly not a true opinion.

Try to keep up