[Trade] Toffoli to Flames for 2022 1st *, 2023 5th, Heineman, and Pitlick

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by camm13

Mang is all ready a regular Pk'er

I know but he's the weakest PKer they currently have and the same applies after Toffolim comes in. In fact, Mangiapane may get bumped from PK altogether, which is fine.

[NiklasSundblad]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

(Don't take notes Edmonton)

Oh, don't worry, they know a thing or two....

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JurassicTunga12

https://twitter.com/user/status/1493657720167157760

And he misses an open net from point blank range??

Optimism Declining!

Urge to Kill Rising!

Fire Treliving!!

Trade the Bum!

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Why are people so utterly anhedonic?

No, the best part of the trade isn't some other guy not playing anymore.

We are on a 6 game winning streak. Best point percentage in the division. No player on our team is crap. All are good players. It's great that we added more depth yesterday, too. But the current set of players got us to the top.

I can't be the only one who had to look that word up right? Y'all just flew right by it lol. I have honestly never seen or heard that one before today. Thanks MH.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

YES, oh yes. Please just give it to me.

Exactly.

I agree with you (lol) that we were bent over on this trade. Sad day, but by the time people realize how sad, we'll be in a new era.


Trading our first round pick for a 30 year-old with 9 goals?

Awesome guys great work.



Could we make it worse? Yes. We could arrange it in such a way that it is possible for this first round pick to become Connor Bedard. Why anyone would role anything over to 2023 with no lottery protection is beyond me.


Anyway I know y'all are excited now. Glad people are happy. But the reality is that this is so poorly planned it makes the Oli Jokinen trade look smart.

Here's hoping the Flames prove me wrong and win the cup, but it's going to take more than 9 goals for a team that is notorious for getting rolled in the playoffs.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

I can't be the only one who had to look that word up right? Y'all just flew right by it lol. I have honestly never seen or heard that one before today. Thanks MH.

Ironically, I generally take a great deal of pleasure in using that word...

But seriously, good descriptive words of emotion (or, lack thereof) are seldom used in english, nice to throw them in!

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Exactly.

I agree with you (lol) that we were bent over on this trade. Sad day, but by the time people realize how sad, we'll be in a new era.


Trading our first round pick for a 30 year-old with 9 goals?

Awesome guys great work.



Could we make it worse? Yes. We could arrange it in such a way that it is possible for this first round pick to become Connor Bedard. Why anyone would role anything over to 2023 with no lottery protection is beyond me.


Anyway I know y'all are excited now. Glad people are happy. But the reality is that this is so poorly planned it makes the Oli Jokinen trade look smart.

Here's hoping the Flames prove me wrong and win the cup, but it's going to take more than 9 goals for a team that is notorious for getting rolled in the playoffs.

Strange, I entirely disagree with your take on the acquisition. 9 goals but the highest ppg on his former team this regular season (the worst offensive team in the league) and recent playoff success (14 points in 22 games in 2021...) Add that he has deep cup experience, experience with players and coaches, and according to MSL was the defacto captain of the canadians prior to trade, and your dislike of the acquisition is kind of baffling. almost .5 gpg in montreal over almost 100 games...

But i do agree with you on the 2nd part. That trade protection on the pick is baffling, and could be disastrous! I mean, a very, very, remote possibility that it is, but it doesnt make sense to me either.

[Jason14h]

I thought Flames have the choice to enact the protection

Meaning they can choose to give their pick to Montreal if they want even if it’s 1st

If not Montreal gets picks in 2023

So unless we fall out of playoffs and win a top 3? Pick it probably isn’t even up for discussion

And if we win 1st overall we aren’t even eligible for 1st the next year so…. Where’s the risk ?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Here's hoping the Flames prove me wrong and win the cup, but it's going to take more than 9 goals for a team that is notorious for getting rolled in the playoffs.

He's no Toby Rieder.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Exactly.

I agree with you (lol) that we were bent over on this trade. Sad day, but by the time people realize how sad, we'll be in a new era.


Trading our first round pick for a 30 year-old with 9 goals?

Awesome guys great work.



Could we make it worse? Yes. We could arrange it in such a way that it is possible for this first round pick to become Connor Bedard. Why anyone would role anything over to 2023 with no lottery protection is beyond me.


Anyway I know y'all are excited now. Glad people are happy. But the reality is that this is so poorly planned it makes the Oli Jokinen trade look smart.

Here's hoping the Flames prove me wrong and win the cup, but it's going to take more than 9 goals for a team that is notorious for getting rolled in the playoffs.

What a sad take.

Toffoli has 37 goals in 87 games as a Hab. He has been a top player since he left the Kings and all he cost was a late pick in a crappy draft. Hilarious that you even contemplate that these conditions won’t be met and the Flames will pick top 10 this year and then 1st overall last year. Just a sad take. No real substance just doom and gloom without any critical or logical thought. Good job

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Exactly.

I agree with you (lol) that we were bent over on this trade. Sad day, but by the time people realize how sad, we'll be in a new era.

I understand that you don't like this trade, but "bend over"? You put too much weight on first round pick. I'm sorry you are sad, but by the time you realize how wrong your are....you'll disappear.

Trading our first round pick for a 30 year-old with 9 goals?

Again, you put too much weight on a first round pick. I think the guy we traded for is not 30, I know you gonna say he's going to be 30. But, he isn't 30 now so that make your statement incorrect. We gave up Pitlick who has 0 goal, we gave up Henieman who has 0 goal we gave up a first and a fifth, I believe this year draft isn't that strong, so even if the team doesn't make it to the final, the draft position is in the twenties.

Awesome guys great work.

I'd like to return the favor and say the same thing to you too, but I can't cos, you are not.

Could we make it worse? Yes. We could arrange it in such a way that it is possible for this first round pick to become Connor Bedard. Why anyone would role anything over to 2023 with no lottery protection is beyond me.

Tre put in a lottery protection this year, and you expect he put in a protection for next year as well? Oh you are saying the first should be first for next year with lottery protected? So your way of doing trade is everything to your favor? You are right, that is beyond me.

Anyway I know y'all are excited now. Glad people are happy. But the reality is that this is so poorly planned it makes the Oli Jokinen trade look smart.

You're right, w'all are excited and happy. Reality is this is not a poorly planned trade and I'm sorry you are not happy. ....so sad.

Here's hoping the Flames prove me wrong and win the cup, but it's going to take more than 9 goals for a team that is notorious for getting rolled in the playoffs.

Okay, what do you expect the team to trade for? A guy that has more than 9 goals and the other team gonna ask for less than this? Or do you want the team to just stand pat so you can come in to say Tre didn't do anything to help the team?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Exactly.

I agree with you (lol) that we were bent over on this trade. Sad day, but by the time people realize how sad, we'll be in a new era.


Trading our first round pick for a 30 year-old with 9 goals?

Awesome guys great work.



Could we make it worse? Yes. We could arrange it in such a way that it is possible for this first round pick to become Connor Bedard. Why anyone would role anything over to 2023 with no lottery protection is beyond me.


Anyway I know y'all are excited now. Glad people are happy. But the reality is that this is so poorly planned it makes the Oli Jokinen trade look smart.

Here's hoping the Flames prove me wrong and win the cup, but it's going to take more than 9 goals for a team that is notorious for getting rolled in the playoffs.

Current 10th worst team is Detroit right at .500 in win percentage. The Wings could improve or slide but there will be a team somewhere in that range as the 10th worst team.

For Calgary to reach that 10th (no worse) pace they'd have to go 12-25-0 for a .324 win percentage over their last 37 games.

Only Montreal and Arizona are placing worse than that .324 pace.

As mentioned the Flames likely have the option (don't know) to exercize that protection or not.

And ...

Even if they go 12-25-0, don't have the option and are forced to expose themselves to the 2023 standings and finish last, they'd still only have a 25.7% chance of winning the lottery.

So you're hating a trade that is needed an epic collapse, a lack of an option, a complete free fall to the bottom of the standings and then the good fortune of winning a 1/4 draft lottery.

Buck up little camper!

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Current 10th worst team is Detroit right at .500 in win percentage.

Sorry to side track, but how on earth are the wings only the 10th worst team? Seider and Raymond are excellent rookies.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I thought Flames have the choice to enact the protection

Meaning they can choose to give their pick to Montreal if they want even if it’s 1st

If not Montreal gets picks in 2023

So unless we fall out of playoffs and win a top 3? Pick it probably isn’t even up for discussion

And if we win 1st overall we aren’t even eligible for 1st the next year so…. Where’s the risk ?

true choice would be a lotto protected pick in 2023. An unprotected lotto pick imho is the choice between 2 really bad options.

[klikitiklik]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Ironically, I generally take a great deal of pleasure in using that word...

But seriously, good descriptive words of emotion (or, lack thereof) are seldom used in english, nice to throw them in!

Keep them coming! Anhedonic is my new word now. Sorry you can't use it anymore.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by jjgallow

Exactly.

I agree with you (lol) that we were bent over on this trade. Sad day, but by the time people realize how sad, we'll be in a new era.


Trading our first round pick for a 30 year-old with 9 goals?

Awesome guys great work.



Could we make it worse? Yes. We could arrange it in such a way that it is possible for this first round pick to become Connor Bedard. Why anyone would role anything over to 2023 with no lottery protection is beyond me.


Anyway I know y'all are excited now. Glad people are happy. But the reality is that this is so poorly planned it makes the Oli Jokinen trade look smart.

Here's hoping the Flames prove me wrong and win the cup, but it's going to take more than 9 goals for a team that is notorious for getting rolled in the playoffs.

a) He's 29.

b) There is almost no way our pick is top ten this year, thus we won't lose our 2023.

c) The LOWEST rating I have seen anyone give this trade is a B+. And that was one. All others have been A-, A, or A+.

d) Calling this trade "poorly planned" does not make a ton of sense to me, and insulates them from one unexpected injury. That is good planning in my books. That, and it gives some insulation if Johnny or Chucky leave. Again, good planning.

[jjgallow]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I understand that you don't like this trade, but "bend over"? You put too much weight on first round pick. I'm sorry you are sad, but by the time you realize how wrong your are....you'll disappear.





Again, you put too much weight on a first round pick. I think the guy we traded for is not 30, I know you gonna say he's going to be 30. But, he isn't 30 now so that make your statement incorrect. We gave up Pitlick who has 0 goal, we gave up Henieman who has 0 goal we gave up a first and a fifth, I believe this year draft isn't that strong, so even if the team doesn't make it to the final, the draft position is in the twenties.





I'd like to return the favor and say the same thing to you too, but I can't cos, you are not.

I'll summarize, because I've been through all of this before and don't want any of us to have to invest unnecessary gobs of time on it:


If you think that Toffoli is the difference between a Stanley Cup this year and no Stanley Cup, then this is a good trade (or for that matter the next 3 years).


If you don't think that, then, imho, this should be a bad trade to you.



Most here are excited, and "hope" he is the difference. I don't see this as true opinion, I see it as hope, and subject to change.


There are two kinds of trades:

1. Sacrificing the future for now
2. Investing in the future for future


Guess which one of those trades tends to look better in hindsight.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Sure but 1 team wins the cup each year. At some point, when is showing potential to go on a run you invest in that team.
You don't have this core with Darryl Sutter at the helm, and the record they have - and then not address a clear need. Particularly when the cost is manageable.

You are over-focused on a scenario (losing a 2023 lotto pick) that has a stunningly low probability of happening.

Also what is a 'true opinion'?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by timbit

Darryl is playing 3 dimensional chess...

So, he is playing chess?

[GioforPM]

Toffoli is also signed for a decent price for 2 years after this one. So the first isn't just for "right now", it's for the immediate short term future. Which is all a team can really plan for.