Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by chedder

Yeah, apparently it's the new one. Looks fine so far. No signs of delamination. I would hope if there's an issue in the next few years ford will take care of it. Wind noise at hwy speeds is acceptable to me so far.

That's good. I'm kind of bummed now as I was kind of excited about driving one.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

We looked at a Telluride. I have to admit that I was shocked at what you get for the money compared to say a Subaru Ascent. The interior is close to luxury quality and for a large vehicle you get a lot of equipment for the money. Ultimately we decided that it was too big for my wife's needs and ended up ordering a GV70. My plan of ordering a Bronco for her (secretly for me) is now over. Too bad because the Bronco I have on order will probably arrive before the GV70. IMO the Koreans have surpassed the Japanese as their tech is better and their interiors are closer to German quality and design.

Odd, I found the Telluride's interior "felt cheaper" than the Palisade's interior.

I am also interested in the Big Cherokee. Part of my wonders if it is the beginning of the end for the Durango. They seem like very similar vehicle.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Odd, I found the Telluride's interior "felt cheaper" than the Palisade's interior.

I am also interested in the Big Cherokee. Part of my wonders if it is the beginning of the end for the Durango. They seem like very similar vehicle.

I totally agree with you. I don't think the Telluride's interior feels very premium, but the Palisade's sure does.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sub-MSRP is not going to happen in this current market.

That's what I figured, but interesting enough a co-worker just bought a pre-order Pallisade for sub MSRP. Invoice + 2% to be precise (though I don't know what other add-ons were done in the Finance Manager office).

[nik-]

I've read (I think in Car and Driver) that even when this production situation is done they're going to want to keep production lower than it was in order in order to kill rebates. How long that lasts is anyone's guess. It will only take a company or two being aggressive for market share to end it, but sub MSRP might never be a thing ever again.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by nik-

I've read (I think in Car and Driver) that even when this production situation is done they're going to want to keep production lower than it was in order in order to kill rebates. How long that lasts is anyone's guess. It will only take a company or two being aggressive for market share to end it, but sub MSRP might never be a thing ever again.

There's some truth to that as automakers have now got a taste of higher profits as opposed to manufacturing more and making less. BMW I think had their best year ever in 2021 for example. I do think that automakers will be in no hurry to ramp up production to pre-pandemic levels but the reality is that the moment some of them do, the rest will have to follow as we are finding out with the inflated used vehicle costs that the average person doesn't want to wait to order a car as they want it today so the automakers that pump out the most vehicles will sell the most until we reach equilibrium and once that happens then it probably goes the other way back to overcrowded lots and dealer incentives. It will probably take a few more years and it's going to be tied to COVID breakouts but sub MSRP will be a thing again.

[cam_wmh]

Interesting. Recall VW making that run to take over Toyota as #1 volume manufacturer?
Why? Just seems d!c size, yet not a economic motivator if the margins now show, that in this new world it doesn’t make sense.

[cam_wmh]

Also, I lucked out, in swapping my ‘17R for a ‘19R in Apr 2020. Heavily incentivized, vs months later to today.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I totally agree with you. I don't think the Telluride's interior feels very premium, but the Palisade's sure does.

I'm quite impressed with the interior of our Highlander, to the point where I don't see why someone would spend the extra $ for the Lexus equivalent. Leather wrapped everything, heated memory seats, top notch infotainment system, radar cruise control, etc. What does buying the luxury brand get you nowadays that's worth it?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

That's what I figured, but interesting enough a co-worker just bought a pre-order Pallisade for sub MSRP. Invoice + 2% to be precise (though I don't know what other add-ons were done in the Finance Manager office).

Palisades just don't sell as well as Tellurides. It's been hard to get a Telluride since the day they came out. Current wait is 5-6 months. You could probably have a new Palisade by lunch tomorrow if you wanted.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There's some truth to that as automakers have now got a taste of higher profits as opposed to manufacturing more and making less. BMW I think had their best year ever in 2021 for example. I do think that automakers will be in no hurry to ramp up production to pre-pandemic levels but the reality is that the moment some of them do, the rest will have to follow as we are finding out with the inflated used vehicle costs that the average person doesn't want to wait to order a car as they want it today so the automakers that pump out the most vehicles will sell the most until we reach equilibrium and once that happens then it probably goes the other way back to overcrowded lots and dealer incentives. It will probably take a few more years and it's going to be tied to COVID breakouts but sub MSRP will be a thing again.

Porsche and other luxury manufacturers also had their biggest volume sales years ever. New car availability and the state of the used car market have far less to do with a chip shortage and far more to do with trillions of new dollars in the economy needing a place to be spent.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by you&me

Porsche and other luxury manufacturers also had their biggest volume sales years ever. New car availability and the state of the used car market have far less to do with a chip shortage and far more to do with trillions of new dollars in the economy needing a place to be spent.

Yeah, not really. Manufacturers aren't shutting down production lines and removing chip requiring options from their cars because there's too much money out there.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Palisades just don't sell as well as Tellurides. It's been hard to get a Telluride since the day they came out. Current wait is 5-6 months. You could probably have a new Palisade by lunch tomorrow if you wanted.

The exterior of the Telluride looks so much better, IMO and I think that a lot of people by vehicles on the exterior styling vanity.

If you combined the interior of the Hyundai with the exterior of the Kia oh Momma!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

I'm quite impressed with the interior of our Highlander, to the point where I don't see why someone would spend the extra $ for the Lexus equivalent. Leather wrapped everything, heated memory seats, top notch infotainment system, radar cruise control, etc. What does buying the luxury brand get you nowadays that's worth it?

Yeah, I hear you. A normal car nowadays is fataing sick compared to what they were 20 years ago.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

The exterior of the Telluride looks so much better, IMO and I think that a lot of people by vehicles on the exterior styling vanity.

If you combined the interior of the Hyundai with the exterior of the Kia of Momma!

Yeah, that combo would be where it's at for sure.

The interior in the Teluride is perfectly acceptable, whereas the interior in the Palisade punches way above its weight. Problem is, the exterior of the Palisade is not acceptable, IMO. If you aren't going to take that last look back at your vehicle as you walk away, you're in the wrong car. I tried so hard to like the Palisade because A. They're available, and B. The interior is so nice. The exterior is just so hurtin' I couldn't do it, though. How can they put such a rich-looking interior in such a cheap-looking exterior? I don't get it.

[cam_wmh]

Yeah, I may be in the minority but there are so few SUV's that I'd walk away, and then do a double-take upon. Both look like subtle renditions of the more common UV appliance, Explorer. Aesthetics honestly, for for the common buyer of an SUV must fall 4th or 5th behind, more utilitarian traits, like power, fuel economy, comfort, & interior space.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Yeah, I may be in the minority but there are so few SUV's that I'd walk away, and then do a double-take upon. Both look like subtle renditions of the more common UV appliance, Explorer. Aesthetics honestly, for for the common buyer of an SUV must fall 4th or 5th behind, more utilitarian traits, like power, fuel economy, comfort, & interior space.

I'm with you on that. I don't like SUVs and wouldn't want one. I'm about the cars. That said, if your wife is getting an SUV, I don't think you can beat the Telluride. IMO, it looks better than the rest and the interior space, comfort and ergonomics are top notch. Material finishing and quality is pretty mid-tier and the power is just adequate, but in the segment that's the way it is. Much nicer than any domestic. I went into the purchase with an open mind on everything. Biggest disappointments were the German offerings as their interior space was pathetic.

When we get the Telluride, we will be taking a second look as we walk away. We've bought the night sky package where there is no chrome...it's all blacked out. It's going to look pretty cool.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

What does buying the luxury brand get you nowadays that's worth it?

Quality of materials, attention to detail, better NVH, and more investment / engineering going into driving dynamics.

Whether or not that's worth it really depends on what you value in the first place.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

When we get the Telluride, we will be taking a second look as we walk away. We've bought the night sky package where there is no chrome...it's all blacked out. It's going to look pretty cool.

That is a nice looking ride.

I continue the love affair with my 2011 Durango Citadel.

I can't quit you baby, I still like looking at the grill on that vehicle, just does it for me.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Quality of materials, attention to detail, better NVH, and more investment / engineering going into driving dynamics.

Whether or not that's worth it really depends on what you value in the first place.

I went from a BMW to a Mazda. Lots of similarities in the cabin designs actually, but one thing that has stood out beyond everything is the fit and finish between the vehicles. Even in a 2 Series, I didn't have a single rattle or button or switch that didn't sit right.

My Mazda has at least two rattles at a time depending on the temperature outside. And I've noticed pretty much the same with every other economy brand.

And as somebody who is obsessive about this, it absolutely drives me nuts.