The Legend of Sam Bennett

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Because the Flames only had one Huberdeau-calibre player instead of two, and the connections between Gaudreau and Monahan/Lindholm were too good to break up in favour of propping up a complementary player.

Uh, ok. Shall we start the legend of Micheal Ferland thread?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Sure does have plenty to do with him scoring....doesn't mean the flames dont have their own assist machine. I also qualified my statement by mentioning pace not full season goal totals. Hmmm gaudreau also contributed to career highs for the likes of Lindholm, Mony, Hudler and Giordano....i guess all those guys are plugs without him so theres that. Oh and Reinhart played for the perpetually tanking Sabers everyone knew he would do better with a change of scenary, much like Benzo.

Different styles. Bennett gets a lot of points playing with Huberdeau because huberdeau drives the net quickly, and Bennett does the same with his stick on the ice. Not his Gaudreau plays.

Also Lindholm is better than Bennett. Gaudreau and Monahan were one of the top duos in the league.... Guess they should have been broken up to help Bennett get 60 points though?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Because the Flames only had one Huberdeau-calibre player instead of two, and the connections between Gaudreau and Monahan/Lindholm were too good to break up in favour of propping up a complementary player.

...Monahan and Lindholm were/are... complementary players being propped up themselves.

Lindholm was also exclusively playing RW when on a line with Gaudreau during Bennett's tenure as a Flame. There was nothing stopping the team from even forming a Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm line. The only centre Lindholm played while Bennett was here was when he had Tkachuk and Mangiapane on his flanks.. which was still an option. The 3M line was also highly potent at the time, so not having a Barkov type is a complete revision of history.

Gaudreau - Bennett - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Backlund - Lindholm
Lucic - Dube - Monahan
4LW - Ryan - 4RW

There is no reason some variation of this was impractical - other than the fact that Bennett was typecast as... 4LW.

Even omitting how poorly Monahan played as Gaudreau's centre in 2020-22, the pairing had five years together to do... something together But they proved easy to shut down in tight checking games because the centre simply did not carry the puck... EVER.

One of the reasons Bennett is so successful as Huberdeau's centre is because he actually does do a lot of work with respect to breakouts and zone entries.

[Erick Estrada]

I watch as many Panthers games as I can because they are fun to watch. They have so many players on offense that can finish that they are difficult to shut down as you can't focus on shutting down one line. I think fans need to give Bennett some credit as he's making plays he never made in Calgary. You watch some of the highlights and he's made some really nice passes to set up goals and that's something that wasn't part of his game in Calgary. He finally resembles the player he was in junior and it's unfortunate that it he could not play like that for the Flames but one of Treliving's biggest failings is addressing the 2nd line as that's where Bennett needed to play but Backlund just isn't dynamic of a center and Bennett needs a creative player on his line.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by blankall

Firstly, let's wait until he actually has 40. Secondly, it's such a shocking coincidence how many other players were mishandled horribly before going to Florida. Verhage, Montour, Duclair, Forsing, and Reinhart all vastly increasing their offensive output upon arriving in Florida.

Bennett playing with the league leader in assists has nothing to do with him scoring more goals?

Bennett is a good player that was mismanaged by the Calgary Flames. Period.

Spin all you want but there is a big difference between Huberdeau and Jankowski.

The Flames used a top 6 player on their bottom lines with garbage players then traded the good player.

Btw, all good players produce with good players. Stop this Huberdeau crap. Johnny plays with Tkachuk and Lindholm. He doesn’t play with Richardson or the ineffective Monahan

[Erick Estrada]

A telling stat is that Bennett is 3rd in ice time for forwards on a team with a very deep forward group. It's mind boggling that he was only getting 12-14 minutes a game max with the Flames. IMO that's not putting your top five overall pick in a situation to succeed. Even Darryl knew there was a player there but it was too late as previous coaches just didn't understand how to utilize him.

[Saqe]

So many takes here that are from people who clearly don't watch the Panthers. That second line Huberdeau-Bennett-Duclair is probably the best line in hockey right now and the chemistry they have is great. It's not just one guy doing it. Sam is mostly sniping his goals and creating stuff for himself, Duclair is much more beneficiary of Huberdeau who DOESN'T drive the net but loves to do a spinorama after the blue line and hit the second wave, Duclair in this case who comes through with blazing speed. They are a great unit that compliment each other very well.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Huberdeau might be one of the most under-rated players right now.
4th in league scoring behind Mcdavid, Draisatl and AO - but gets a fraction of the attention.

Him and Kadri, who's fifth in points but wasn't even named to the all-star game.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

A telling stat is that Bennett is 3rd in ice time for forwards on a team with a very deep forward group. It's mind boggling that he was only getting 12-14 minutes a game max with the Flames. IMO that's not putting your top five overall pick in a situation to succeed. Even Darryl knew there was a player there but it was too late as previous coaches just didn't understand how to utilize him.

It's mostly because he's one of their most well-rounded players. Many of their forwards are primarily offense focused, and while they play a decent team defensive game, there are few who can actually eat up the tough defensive minutes required to win games. Heck, Huberdeau kills penalties.

Barkov, Bennett, Lundell...

Their centers are all strong defensively, but after that, it's hit or miss on the defensive game for the forwards.

[TheoFleury]

The Flames didn't get good value for Bennett. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

They got a couple magic beans for a quality 2C they drafted with the highest pick in the history of the team

Guess what this team's biggest hole on the roster currently is?

2C

More of a gaping chasm actually

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

The Flames didn't get good value for Bennett. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

They got a couple magic beans for a quality 2C they drafted with the highest pick in the history of the team

Guess what this team's biggest hole on the roster currently is?

2C

More of a gaping chasm actually

The trade value is water under the bridge, the player publically requested a trade during a time where his value was lowest.

The fact that they drove his value down with consistent misuse - position, icetime, linemates, special teams usage, however, is more concerning because it's a trend that continues to this day. Talented players like Phillips, Pellettier, Ruzicka, Dube in the system being asked to play with plugs or not play or play out of position, Monahan still being square-pegged as a centre, 3rd D pair making zero sense on a fundamental level in terms of basic puckmoving ability... these are the same sort of issues that led to Bennett's reduced overall value, and they persist. We're even seeing established veterans like Coleman and Backlund see their trade value tank as Flames, with very little done to figure out strategies - whether systemic or via the use of trusting callups - that will maximize the potential of the roster.

Instead night in night out we have to watch plugs like Pitlick, Centre Monahan, Lewis, Richardson, Ritchie, Gudbranson, Zadorov and the spiel we are fed is the same spiel we have always been fed under Treliving's unsuccessful tenure.

Sutter's a good coach, but his job isn't to decide the roster. There is too much deadweight on the roster and has been for a long time. That... is on Brad Treliving. Waive the guys who have no value-added, call up the players who can inject skill, and cut your losses on Sean Monahan as a centre. Pretty much every piece of dead weight sans Monahan was a Treliving acquisition, not a Button draft pick. And even Monahan could be salvaged with a reduced positional ask.

[TheoFleury]

The chickens came home to roost

Who should be held responsible for this mess?

The GM's main job is literally to evaluate talent and forecast

Does it trouble no one that those are Brad's greatest weaknesses?

Combine that with the shortsighted and inane ownership directive of 'just get in' and you get this

Bennett was destined to demand a trade at some point because assessing talent and forecasting aren't strengths here to put it nicely

[TheoFleury]

Really, building your team around the premise that the second line is the shutdown line is what doomed Bennett. There is a reason no contender does that

As soon as management decided Monahan was a 1C, it was inevitable that Bennett would bust here. This is also related to having nothing on RW and no right handed shooters. Handicapping themselves like that forced them into relying on a guy like Backlund so much

When you have no depth, you can't build a proper shutdown line. They forced themselves into playing Bennett out of position in the bottom 6 and he was never suited for that role

[TheoFleury]

I'm wondering if there ever was a GM who built as flawed of a team after 8 years on the the job, starting from scratch

LW: superstar, star, top 6, top 9

C: 2C, 3C, 4C, AHL

RW: Nothing of note depending on how they throw the darts

D: 4 3D's and a bunch of 7's

G Top 10/15 guy... least of their problems but every other year mediocre

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

The Flames didn't get good value for Bennett. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

They got a couple magic beans for a quality 2C they drafted with the highest pick in the history of the team

Guess what this team's biggest hole on the roster currently is?

2C

More of a gaping chasm actually

At the time they did, what did the Sens get for Duclair again? Sabres get for Hall?

Sam is a good player but he won the team/line mate lottery. If the Flames sent him to Columbus or something this thread wouldn't exist.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by dino7c

At the time they did, what did the Sens get for Duclair again? Sabres get for Hall?



Sam is a good player but he won the team/line mate lottery. If the Flames sent him to Columbus or something this thread wouldn't exist.

What does it matter what the other teams did in their own situations with their own players?

This is about Bennett and the Calgary Flames

I'm not sure talking hypothetical other time lines is worth our time. I exist in the Bennett to Florida time line. Alternate realities is just reaching

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

What does it matter what the other teams did in their own situations with their own players?

This is about Bennett and the Calgary Flames

I'm not sure talking hypothetical other time lines is worth our time. I exist in the Bennett to Florida time line. Alternate realities is just reaching

It matters because value is determined by the marketplace at the time, not hindsight.

A lot of people here think the Flames either made a fair offer or underoffered for Eichel. But if, in hindsight, Eichel is a huge flop, does that mean those people are wrong or just that stuff happens to make a deal look good or bad in hindsight.

People are complaining that Monahan was not removed as 1C when the line was one of the top lines in the NHL, in place of a guy who’d struggled for whatever reason. I’ve never seen a post from that time saying that Bennett should be playing centre on the top line and Monahan demoted. At best they were wanting him on RW (where he doesn’t seem to play well).

Let’s not underestimate the increased motivation Bennett now has, either. Not only in a “I’ll show them” attitude but also in an “I better not screw this one up” and may in a “I like this new team” manner.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Let’s not underestimate the increased motivation Bennett now has, either. Not only in a “I’ll show them” attitude but also in an “I better not screw this one up” and may in a “I like this new team” manner.

When I read this, stuff that paints the player with the mindset “I better not screw this up”, it makes me wonder just how bad this organization is. Was it really a last chance for a guy under 25 who had shown flashes? Or just a legitimate chance to succeed?

Why not take it straight from the horse’s mouth

https://thehockeynews.com/news/sunny...or-sam-bennett

A lot of people talked to me about how a change of scenery can really revitalize a career and change the way things go,” Bennett said. “I knew I still had a lot more to give and more to show as a player. I thought I could do a lot more than what I was doing in Calgary. Sometimes that’s all it takes, a little bit of a change, a GM and a coach that believe in you and that’s definitely what I got in Florida

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It matters because value is determined by the marketplace at the time, not hindsight.



A lot of people here think the Flames either made a fair offer or underoffered for Eichel. But if, in hindsight, Eichel is a huge flop, does that mean those people are wrong or just that stuff happens to make a deal look good or bad in hindsight.



People are complaining that Monahan was not removed as 1C when the line was one of the top lines in the NHL, in place of a guy who’d struggled for whatever reason. I’ve never seen a post from that time saying that Bennett should be playing centre on the top line and Monahan demoted. At best they were wanting him on RW (where he doesn’t seem to play well).



Let’s not underestimate the increased motivation Bennett now has, either. Not only in a “I’ll show them” attitude but also in an “I better not screw this one up” and may in a “I like this new team” manner.

The Flames devalued the asset with their own incompetence

The market place thing is just another in a litany of excuses

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

When I read this, stuff that paints the player with the mindset “I better not screw this up”, it makes me wonder just how bad this organization is. Was it really a last chance for a guy under 25 who had shown flashes? Or just a legitimate chance to succeed?

Why not take it straight from the horse’s mouth

https://thehockeynews.com/news/sunny...or-sam-bennett

That quote seems to support what I said, IMO. Whatever the reason, he came to work a little more motivated.