[GDT] Calgary Flames VS Nashville Predators 7 PM MT; SN360

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CroCop

Hmm...Valimaki trade protection?

My guess is probably that Sutter wants more out of his $4M veteran defenseman, and isn't quite ready to pull the plug on the acquisition 8 games into the season.

Zadorov hasn't been good, but there is an expectation that he will be better today than he was Saturday night.

Still not a fan of that pair's inability to move the puck, but you look back to the job Zadorov-Cole did on our top players in the 2018-19 playoffs and you can see why Sutter wants him to at least start playing well. Despite Gudbranson's success so far, maybe Zadorov-Valimaki is a higher-ceiling pair. Step 1 is getting Zadorov performing to a high level before putting him with the potentially erratic young kid while moving said kid to his off-side.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

My guess is probably that Sutter wants more out of his $4M veteran defenseman, and isn't quite ready to pull the plug on the acquisition 8 games into the season.

Zadorov hasn't been good, but there is an expectation that he will be better today than he was Saturday night.

Still not a fan of that pair's inability to move the puck, but you look back to the job Zadorov-Cole did on our top players in the 2018-19 playoffs and you can see why Sutter wants him to at least start playing well. Despite Gudbranson's success so far, maybe Zadorov-Valimaki is a higher-ceiling pair. Step 1 is getting Zadorov performing to a high level before putting him with the potentially erratic young kid while moving said kid to his off-side.

The thing of it for me, and I’m sure most of us, is Valimaki can’t be sent to the minors without waivers and would get claimed 100% so he needs to play regularly in order to continue to develop.

It’s two games so I’m not going to assume anything and it’s likely Sutter pushing Valimaki to be the best he can be but I will not be happy if he continues to scratch him.

I don’t see Zadorov as a guy that re-signs here so I hope the focus is on the development of Valimaki. With all the time he has missed due to injuries the last thing he needs is to be continually shunned to the press box.

Only reason I comment on this is because the other 5 seemingly have solidified their spots so to me Zadorov should be our #7.

[Robbob]

Zidlicky still eats kittens. That is the type of monster you can rally against to extend the wining streak to 7.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

The thing of it for me, and I’m sure most of us, is Valimaki can’t be sent to the minors without waivers and would get claimed 100% so he needs to play regularly in order to continue to develop.

Agreed, but I don't think this is something we can judge until the end of the season. If Valimaki plays in only 50 NHL games, I would think that wouldn't hinder his development at all. It might actually be good for him to spend a little more time watching than what he was afforded last season.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

Yes, and this is Sutter's way of rebuilding him .... slowly. One part at a time.
You could almost call it a redevelopment.
Glad we have Darryl.

Also, his ‘lack of production’ is easily blameable only the coach right now. Takes pressure off of him.

[djsFlames]

I love the balance of our forward lines.

There's a threat on every line.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

The thing of it for me, and I’m sure most of us, is Valimaki can’t be sent to the minors without waivers and would get claimed 100% so he needs to play regularly in order to continue to develop.

It’s two games so I’m not going to assume anything and it’s likely Sutter pushing Valimaki to be the best he can be but I will not be happy if he continues to scratch him.

I don’t see Zadorov as a guy that re-signs here so I hope the focus is on the development of Valimaki. With all the time he has missed due to injuries the last thing he needs is to be continually shunned to the press box.

Only reason I comment on this is because the other 5 seemingly have solidified their spots so to me Zadorov should be our #7.

I think it's a bit crazy that Erik Gudbranson has "solidifed a spot".

On paper, Gudbranson should be our #7D. He's been better, but that's moreso a knock on Zadorov and Valimaki not playing to their potential.

Getting to that point by mid-season should be the goal.

It requires Zadorov and Valimaki to play better and steal that role from him.

But it requires flexibility and meritocracy in the roster.

I want Gudbranson to be strong depth, not our #5 defenseman.

That should 100% be Valimaki, because he is the guy closest to the skillset of a top four defenseman.

It's on him to to steal Gudbranson's spot as #5 by really playing like this:



That anticipation, timing, and recognition... it's gamechanging.

It shouldn't be a matter of "who plays with Gudbranson"

It should be a matter of "who gets to play with Valimaki".

Even now, Valimaki's impact on Gudbranson is highly evident - and Valimaki hasn't been at his best. I expect Valimaki to have a similar impact on Zadodov.

But Zadorov has to play better and steal Gudbranson's spot too.

Roster competition is a great thing to have when it's actual conpetition.

[timbit]

Up to this point...

Your damn rights Gudbrandson has solidified his spot.

More so than Valimaki.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Let's see how the Flames do against another team which is playing well. I think the Flames have a good chance in this one.

Monahan with another two point night, and Mang scores again.

Every single team the Flames have played this year were 'playing well' at the time.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I think it's a bit crazy that Erik Gudbranson has "solidifed a spot".

On paper, Gudbranson should be our #7D. He's been better, but that's moreso a knock on Zadorov and Valimaki not playing to their potential.

Getting to that point by mid-season should be the goal.

It requires Zadorov and Valimaki to play better and steal that role from him.

But it requires flexibility and meritocracy in the roster.

I want Gudbranson to be strong depth, not our #5 defenseman.

That should 100% be Valimaki, because he is the guy closest to the skillset of a top four defenseman.

It's on him to to steal Gudbranson's spot as #5 by really playing like this:



That anticipation, timing, and recognition... it's gamechanging.

It shouldn't be a matter of "who plays with Gudbranson"

It should be a matter of "who gets to play with Valimaki".

I don't really give a damn who's in the #5 spot as long as he's playing well in that role, regardless of whether it's Gudbranson, Valimaki, Zadorov, or Harvey the f-ing Hound...

[djsFlames]

Gud has been full marks and should be the defects #5 until he shows otherwise.

Valimaki hasn't yet earned time above the bottom pairing. But he's certainly been decent with Gudbranson if not good for spurts.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

My guess is probably that Sutter wants more out of his $4M veteran defenseman, and isn't quite ready to pull the plug on the acquisition 8 games into the season.

Zadorov hasn't been good, but there is an expectation that he will be better today than he was Saturday night.

Still not a fan of that pair's inability to move the puck, but you look back to the job Zadorov-Cole did on our top players in the 2018-19 playoffs and you can see why Sutter wants him to at least start playing well. Despite Gudbranson's success so far, maybe Zadorov-Valimaki is a higher-ceiling pair. Step 1 is getting Zadorov performing to a high level before putting him with the potentially erratic young kid while moving said kid to his off-side.

I doubt Sutter gives a flying penguin about how much any of them make, or when or how they were acquired.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I think it's a bit crazy that Erik Gudbranson has "solidifed a spot".

On paper, Gudbranson should be our #7D. He's been better, but that's moreso a knock on Zadorov and Valimaki not playing to their potential.

Getting to that point by mid-season should be the goal.

It requires Zadorov and Valimaki to play better and steal that role from him.

But it requires flexibility and meritocracy in the roster.

I want Gudbranson to be strong depth, not our #5 defenseman.

That should 100% be Valimaki, because he is the guy closest to the skillset of a top four defenseman.

It's on him to to steal Gudbranson's spot as #5 by really playing like this:



That anticipation, timing, and recognition... it's gamechanging.

It shouldn't be a matter of "who plays with Gudbranson"

It should be a matter of "who gets to play with Valimaki".

Even now, Valimaki's impact on Gudbranson is highly evident - and Valimaki hasn't been at his best. I expect Valimaki to have a similar impact on Zadodov.

But Zadorov has to play better and steal Gudbranson's spot too.

Roster competition is a great thing to have when it's actual conpetition.

Most of this post is just you projecting your bias, and assuming players should be ranked based on the type of player you like.

Gudbranson has not only earned his spot, he has been better than Valimaki, if you want to compare them.

There is no conspiracy here, nor any 'big gets the spot' bias. Gudbranson has been gud.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I doubt Sutter gives a flying penguin about how much any of them make, or when or how they were acquired.

For sure. But I think a bad preseason and 3 games isn't enough time to write the guy off for the whole year.

I hope the bottom pair is constantly being evaluated all year. All four guys - Valimaki, Stone, Gudbranson, Zadorov, as many permutations that make sense. And I hope we see Mackey and Kinnvall too.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Most of this post is just you projecting your bias, and assuming players should be ranked based on the type of player you like.

Gudbranson has not only earned his spot, he has been better than Valimaki, if you want to compare them.

There is no conspiracy here, nor any 'big gets the spot' bias. Gudbranson has been gud.

The only projecting going on here is you, projecting this bias onto me.

Read my words again.

I said Valimaki hasn't been great, and needs to play at the level he is capable of to solidify himself as the #5 over Gudbranson. He hasn't done that yet.

What part of the above paragraph do you disagree with?

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Most of this post is just you projecting your bias, and assuming players should be ranked based on the type of player you like.

Gudbranson has not only earned his spot, he has been better than Valimaki, if you want to compare them.

There is no conspiracy here, nor any 'big gets the spot' bias. Gudbranson has been gud.

He’s saying Valimaki should be the #5 if his play had dictated it. Up to this point it hasn’t but he/we are hoping it eventually gets there because the Valimaki’s, Kylington’s, Hanifin’s and Andersson’s of this team are where the growth will come and they are the future.

We already know what veterans like Tanev et al. are.

[PugnaciousIntern]

After seeing Kylington’s progression after having years of patience, why are we so keen to mess with Valimaki? Let the dude develop and don’t disrupt a team that’s playing well just to increase from 52 to 82 games played.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by DJones

I know Monahan has been getting decent minutes but he needs better linemates.

What would happen if you swapped Tkachuk for Lewis (or move Pitlick up to the first line, Ritchie to the Second, and Lewis to the third, Tkachuk to the fourth)... the forth line would be a second caliber line at least with Lucic there to protect Tkachuk(not that he wants it).



Move the play makers around after a lose... I would like to see that... we have three play makers on our first.... I think we need to move one down the line up to balance our attack... it would make our team deadly the way we are playing. I would like to see Tkachuk on the second or forth line.... I think Dube and Mangiapan are good where they are and don't need it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

He’s saying Valimaki should be the #5 if his play had dictated it. Up to this point it hasn’t but he/we are hoping it eventually gets there because the Valimaki’s, Kylington’s, Hanifin’s and Andersson’s of this team are where the growth will come and they are the future.

We already know what veterans like Tanev et al. are.

Since clearly timbit and enoch are reading my post and misreading it as a rant about Valimaki not being in and Gudranson being trash, I feel compelled to clarify:

1) Thus far this season, I would rank our bottom four defensemen as

5) Gudbranson
6) Valimaki
7) Stone
8) Zadorov

However, I believe the Flames need to exercise flexibility and competition.

First of all, Zadorov-Gudbranson is not a pair capable of moving the puck. I don't care about it tonight, but it won't work in meaningful games against great teams. They'll pick it apart.

Second, Valimaki has had some poor plays so far this year. He needs to clean it up. I also thought he was not very good last year. However the very basic fact that he's the only player of the four above who can move the puck is why it's important for the team that he takes huge, immediate strides.

Third, Gudbranson hasn't "earned himself a scratch". I'd say Valimaki has had a game or two where it felt like he did. But that's what's crazy. That Gudbranson has outplayed Valimaki. That's on Valimaki to figure it out.
To play at the level he is capable of - consistently.

Fourth, Zadorov playing better is important. It gives Sutter the option of trying Kinnvall in a scenario where we trade away Valimaki for Eichel. Zadorov needs to play at a #5 level. So far he has been the worst defenseman in every game he has participated in. But we've all seen what he's capable of, back when Zadorov-Cole shut down the Purple Gatorade line. I believe Sutter is trying to work Zadorov back to that level, but trusts Gudbranson more than Valimaki right now.

Overall, it's November and Sutter's handling of the D core is nothing short of praiseworthy so far.

Hope that helped clarify.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Your Calgary Flames!

Let’s stay positive friends! Go Flames Go!

I am always positive. Positive the Oilers are No Good.