2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by kehatch

If a team was willing to give up a AAA prospect for Eichel the deal would have been done already.

If the Flames had a AAA prospect they would be willing to give that player up.

More realistically, the Sabres want a Mangiapane or Lindholm in the package and that's the issue.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

With the Flames’ fortunes, I can just imagine the disastrous scenarios that could emerge from trading for Eichel. Just envision a trade of Tkachuk, Coronato, and the next two unprotected firsts for Eichel. He has his surgery but sustains some nerve damage affecting the dexterity of his hands. He’s healthy enough to play and is no longer a sniper but instead a $10M bottom 6 player. Without Tkachuk or any top 6 RW on the club, and other teams totally keying on Lindholm and Gaudreau, the Flames finish bottom 3 and win the draft lottery, giving the first overall pick to Buffalo. Flames can’t make any off-season deals due to being in salary cap hell, and end up winning the next draft lottery as well, giving Buffalo its second first overall in two years. With only Zary, Pelletier, and maybe Wolf having any chance of making the NHL, once they have made the jump, the prospect pipeline is dry for three years and the team spends another three years being in the bottom five, and can’t even start a rebuild until Eichel’s contract is up.

I know, it all sounds unlikely, but it’s the Flames we’re discussing, and if any team could have a misfortune such as this, it’s the Flames.

There’s not much point in trying to catastrophize this.

First of all, I doubt Buffalo has much interest in Tkachuk. I’m sure they like him as a player, but they’re not dumb. They know his contract status and I would be surprised if they don’t see him as a significant flight risk in about a years time.

The question for me is, can the Flamrs do this without giving up one of Dube or Mangiapane? I suspect no, but that might be what it is going to take.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Buffalo's doctor is Beatle17.


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Why this shot? He has the right to get a second opinion, I never gave any comment on what was the best, the only comment I made was WHO has the right to decide on which surgery given by the CBA.

But you have your usual drive by ###### bag comments.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by kehatch

If a team was willing to give up a AAA prospect for Eichel the deal would have been done already.

It's also clear that if they were interested in Flames prospects the deal would have been done already. I just don't think the Flames have the goods to make the deal.

[dino7c]

Looks at the entire history of Flames first rounders

Yep, give them as many of those as needed

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If the Flames had a AAA prospect they would be willing to give that player up.



More realistically, the Sabres want a Mangiapane or Lindholm in the package and that's the issue.

I love mangiapane but he's about to get real expensive. Unless they know they won't have gaudreau or Tkachuk long term, it might actually make sense to dangle maniapane here if it means saving lindholm

Eichel 10m
Gaudreau 9m(?)
Tkachuk 9m(?)
Monahan 6.375m
Backlund 5.35m
Lucic 5.25m
Coleman 4.9m
Lindholm 4.85m

Mangiapane is getting at least 5m, maybe 5.5m. He's probably a cap casualty but at least he represents value in a trade.

Too bad Monahan's value has likely plummeted. Buffalo probably not interested in giving any sort of value for him. If I were them I'd way rather Lindholm but would settle for mangiapane as long as the 1st was unconditional. They might want Andersson instead of Hanifin based on their roster construction. I value them about the same. Ideally they'd take valimaki + 2nd instead but that might be a reach. Besides, BUF needs to absorb some cap here and I highly doubt they want Lucic or Zadorov without asking for a sweetener.

Mangiapane
Hanifin
2022 1st

For

Eichel
Bjork

Then turn around and trade Monahan for a capable veteran dman who can replace Hanifin. Maybe something around a guy like Leddy. I don't know, just spit balling. Not sure nyi even interested, but leddy pending Ufa, who knows. Either that or move Monahan to the wing and maybe dangle Dube for a dman with more control

Then trade Pelletier for Kravtsov if possible

Gaudreau Eichel Coleman
Tkachuk Lindholm Dube
Lucic Backlund Kravtsov
Bjork Lewis Pitlick
Ritchie, Richardson

Leddy Tanev
Valimaki/Kylington Andersson
Kylington/Valimaki Gudbranson
Zadorov

Markstrom
Vladar

Not sure cap even works. Might have to trade Zadorov for a late pick and promote Mackey


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[Tbull8]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

I love mangiapane but he's about to get real expensive. Unless they know they won't have gaudreau or Tkachuk long term, it might actually make sense to dangle maniapane here if it means saving lindholm

Eichel 10m
Gaudreau 9m(?)
Tkachuk 9m(?)
Monahan 6.375m
Backlund 5.35m
Lucic 5.25m
Coleman 4.9m
Lindholm 4.85m

Mangiapane is getting at least 5m, maybe 5.5m. He's probably a cap casualty but at least he represents value in a trade.

Too bad Monahan's value has likely plummeted. Buffalo probably not interested in giving any sort of value for him. If I were them I'd way rather Lindholm but would settle for mangiapane as long as the 1st was unconditional. They might want Andersson instead of Hanifin based on their roster construction. I value them about the same. Ideally they'd take valimaki + 2nd instead but that might be a reach. Besides, BUF needs to absorb some cap here and I highly doubt they want Lucic or Zadorov without asking for a sweetener.

Mangiapane
Hanifin
2022 1st

For

Eichel
Bjork

Then turn around and trade Monahan for a capable veteran dman who can replace Hanifin. Maybe something around a guy like Leddy. I don't know, just spit balling. Not sure nyi even interested, but leddy pending Ufa, who knows. Either that or move Monahan to the wing and maybe dangle Dube for a dman with more control

Then trade Pelletier for Kravtsov if possible

Gaudreau Eichel Coleman
Tkachuk Lindholm Dube
Lucic Backlund Kravtsov
Bjork Lewis Pitlick
Ritchie, Richardson

Leddy Tanev
Valimaki/Kylington Andersson
Kylington/Valimaki Gudbranson
Zadorov

Markstrom
Vladar

Not sure cap even works. Might have to trade Zadorov for a late pick and promote Mackey


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Had me until Pelletier for Kravstov

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Tbull8

Had me until Pelletier for Kravstov

Why? If we keep Gaudreau and Tkachuk long term, Pelletier is blocked from the top 6 anyway. Besides LW is probably the easiest position to fill, whether it be draft, trade or FA.

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[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I can't see the Sabres going for a deal from the Flames that has lottery protection for picks. Otherwise what's the point for them? The rest of the pieces from the Flames aren't good enough. You have to give up something of value.

When I say lottery protection, I mostly just mean Top-1 protection, just because of the specific pieces (Wright / Bedard) in play. We're talking about guys being compared to Crosby and McDavid here. At the least, MacKinnon tier talents.

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

So the deal you are proposing is Monahan, Dube, Valimaki, and prospects or picks.

That is a significant hit to the team from a depth perspective. Do the Flames have the horses in the minors to make up for the loss?

In my opinion, yes we do, but it requires doing what the 2016 Penguins or 2020 Lightning did and actually trying to discover our version of a Conor Sheary or Carter Verhaeghe or such in the NHL.

Here's a lineup sans Valimaki/Monahan/Dube/(Coronato? Pellettier?) I'd be more than open to see:

Top line

Tkachuk - Eichel - Phillips(/Coronato if we can keep him)

Two highly skilled big bodies to allow Phillips' so-called questionmark to be mitigated. And if that doesn't work? You can cycle different guys in an out. I don't see that qs being any different from the fact that we're currently trying Brett Ritchie on a line with Mangiapane and Dube. It's unideal, but it's reality. I'd rather try Phillips over Ritchie.

Second line

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Mangiapane

Give Gaudreau two of our best finishers and a balanced, high compete level. Nobrainer.

Third line

Coleman - Backlund - Pitlick

Three vets with checking ability. Not much needs to be changed here in the short term, and with the stronger top six you're asking less of this line offensively than we currently might be. Long term, you hope a prospect can stepup to be a decent twoway checker in that Pitlick role. We're not asking for highend talent here. Maybe Walker Deuhr is that guy. Who knows.

Fourth line

Lucic - Richardson - Lewis

It's your fourth line. I'm not saying it should be neglected, but even a couple nights ago we saw a fourth line of Ritchie - Gawdin - Lewis give us a dominant shift that indirectly led to a Lindholm goal. I'm sure Sutter can make it work with some tweaking. Lucic gets blasted often but he's still a solid depth NHLer. I honrstly liked what I saw of Lucic - Ruzicka - Phillips in game 82 last year... I'd be willing to give that trio a chance. I reiterate - it's your fourth line.

Top 4D don't change if you hang onto them.

So what about your third pair? Well Gudbranson might not be the focal point, so Zadorov-Kinnvall is a pair I'd be open to trying, once Shinny is healthy. And if Kinnvall isn't up to the lofty task of sheltered #6 puckmoving right D, you ask Arizona at the deadline if Anton Stralman is available. Zadorov-Stralman would be an acceptable third pair, both in terms of experience and ability, but also fit together.

Are there any free agents out there they can sign for cheap to make up for the loss?

Every year there is a Tobias Rieder or such available to round out the bottom. Though I'd be more interested in Type VI UFAs on the market with upside.

If they trade three roster players for Eichel, who will be possibly out for the season, they are throwing the towel in on 2021-22.

That risk does exist. It exists with the current healthy roster too though. In terms of risk vs reward, I'm fine with it.

On the flipside, maybe not having Eichel is the catalyst for a breakout for a Zary, Ruzicka or a Phillips or whoever else gets a chance. It's no more risky than playing a broken Monahan all year last year was. The 2014-15 Flames made the playoffs with Granlund and Jooris and Wotherspoon and Diaz among their depth guys.

We have a coach who can get the players to execute. Something we have not had for many years.

So if we have to try to make the playoffs with:

Gaudreau- Lindholm - Coleman
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Lucic - Ruzicka - Phillips
Ritchie - Richardson - Lewis

Hanifin-Andersson
Kylington-Tanev
Zadorov-Kinnvall

Markstrom
Vladar

then so be it. The team up North for all the flack they get have had a playoff-worthy regular season record since Tippett took over rolling barely two lines. The assumption for us is that Eichel would be back towards the end of the season.

Without the depth, they're in trouble. If we were further along in the development of Pelletier and Zary, I might be more inclined to take the gamble. It is a really tough decision.

It's a gamble short term, but I think it's an easy decision.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Eichel and Hamonic are so different. A trade for eichel is a swing for the fences kind of deal and if removing contingencies and lottery protection get the deal done, then I do it.

I would agrue they are very similar...Brad makes that and Calgary ends up not making the playoffs, no sane GM would make this trade, knowing this could potentially happen, for a second pairing defenseman. I think because of this Brad will not make the same mistake twice.

For example the following trade has been suggested, Monahan, Dube, valimaki and an unprotected 1st round pick. This team has a 50/50 chance to make the playoffs, people are so desperate for Eichel, they are willing to further degrade their chances at a playoff spot for a seriously injured hockey player,
and no chance at all for Shane Wright, does ess that make any sense at all to trade under those conditions?

Furthermore if you delay the first round pick until 2023, there is a good chance this team is not even in the playoffs again. Tkachuk and Gaudreau are still not signed beyond beyond this year. You willing to bet the farm that Eichel recovering from a major surgery , is going to lead this team to the playoffs, the guy could not even lead his own team to the playoffs when he was healthy.

I am all for trading for the guy, because this team needs a shake-up, but it needs to make sense, and protect the flames interests as well.

I think what your seeing from all the other GM's is that they are assessing it that way as well, the risk is far greater then the reward.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If the Flames had a AAA prospect they would be willing to give that player up.

More realistically, the Sabres want a Mangiapane or Lindholm in the package and that's the issue.

Lindholm yes but if the Sabres want Mangi in an Eichel deal you do that all day every day. He is a good player but he is a winger and scoring wingers are not that rare a commodity in the NHL. Young #1C's are unicorns.

[Knightslayer]

As long as Buffalo isn't asking for a 4th rounder, you do it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by browntrout

I would agrue they are very similar...Brad makes that and Calgary ends up not making the playoffs, no sane GM would make this trade, knowing this could potentially happen, for a second pairing defenseman. I think because of this Brad will not make the same mistake twice.

For example the following trade has been suggested, Monahan, Dube, valimaki and an unprotected 1st round pick. This team has a 50/50 chance to make the playoffs, people are so desperate for Eichel, they are willing to further degrade their chances at a playoff spot for a seriously injured hockey player,
and no chance at all for Shane Wright, does ess that make any sense at all to trade under those conditions?

Furthermore if you delay the first round pick until 2023, there is a good chance this team is not even in the playoffs again. Tkachuk and Gaudreau are still not signed beyond beyond this year. You willing to bet the farm that Eichel recovering from a major surgery , is going to lead this team to the playoffs, the guy could not even lead his own team to the playoffs when he was healthy.

I am all for trading for the guy, because this team needs a shake-up, but it needs to make sense, and protect the flames interests as well.

I think what your seeing from all the other GM's is that they are assessing it that way as well, the risk is far greater then the reward.

All trades have risk, including those involving draft picks. Treliving just has to weigh the odds of Eichel not working out versus the Flames finishing in the bottom 11 (and if they do, in what spot - 11th last has a chance but it’s pretty slim).

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

All trades have risk, including those involving draft picks. Treliving just has to weigh the odds of Eichel not working out versus the Flames finishing in the bottom 11 (and if they do, in what spot - 11th last has a chance but it’s pretty slim).

If Eichel bounces back and the team doesn’t work out, I don’t see how you can’t trade him for a top 5 pick. (Assuming his health after surgery isn’t a concern).

Protection of the pick can’t be the sticking point for the Flames. It’s a no brainer to call it unprotected to seal the deal if the trade is all futures. Whoever lands him can hold these same sweepstakes 2-3 years from now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

If Eichel bounces back and the team doesn’t work out, I don’t see how you can’t trade him for a top 5 pick. (Assuming his health after surgery isn’t a concern).

Protection of the pick can’t be the sticking point for the Flames. It’s a no brainer to call it unprotected to seal the deal if the trade is all futures. Whoever lands him can hold these same sweepstakes 2-3 years from now.

Sure, that’s another consideration. I was just responding to the argument that Treliving can’t possibly risk losing the lottery pick. Sure he can. It’s a matter of risk assessment.

I’d say you could build conditions around the pick based on Eichel’s games played or something like that.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

If Eichel bounces back and the team doesn’t work out, I don’t see how you can’t trade him for a top 5 pick. (Assuming his health after surgery isn’t a concern).

Protection of the pick can’t be the sticking point for the Flames. It’s a no brainer to call it unprotected to seal the deal if the trade is all futures. Whoever lands him can hold these same sweepstakes 2-3 years from now.

Except starting next season he has a full NMC, which could make it a little harder.

[djsFlames]

Mock trades are including Lindholm.

Don't think I could do it.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Mock trades are including Lindholm.

Don't think I could do it.

I’m sorry but the upgrade from Lindholm to Eichel is not that significant. Including Lindholm is a hard no.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

I’m sorry but the upgrade from Lindholm to Eichel is not that significant. Including Lindholm is a hard no.

Too much risk and salary difference to make that deal for sure

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Except starting next season he has a full NMC, which could make it a little harder.

I actually totally missed that, definitely harder. Although he doesn’t seem to want to play for losers so at least he’d be open to the idea.