[GDT] Back to the 'Dome! Flames vs Ducks, 7:30 PM, MDT. SN West, SN Flames, SNP, Fan 960

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Sometimes I think this is the problem.

I don't think it matters what profession it is, but sometimes when you are too close to somebody you create a bias.

I know I've done it at work before...you have the co-worker who maybe earlier in their career was just useless, and then once they are actually valuable maybe you are the last that they've changed because of the bias you have from working with them previously.

I do think that's happening a little bit right now with Kylington...he has this reputation as a high risk d-man and it might be tough to break that bias.

Fair enough and maybe more than a little truth to it.

That doesnt explain a guy like Sutter coming in with fresh eyes and apparently seeing the same thing....as did Ward, as did Peters etc.

I dont know, and that's the same for all of us.

But there is clearly something at play.

Not an appeal to authority either because many of those things have changed.

And the one constant in it all, keeps qualifying him to keep him as part of things. So im guessing they see the potential in him but arent seeing him do whatever it is to get there.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

This puppet has some deep seated anger issues. An angry, angry puppet.

Yeah but those are the best kinds of puppets.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by mile

Can’t wait for the Geoff Ward tribute video

I did not know he's an assistant with the Ducks!

[Toonage]

They'll likely pull Ward's video at an inopportune time to show us a Rittich video.

[Puppet Guy]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

This puppet has some deep seated anger issues. An angry, angry puppet.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah but those are the best kinds of puppets.

Oh, he's a psychological mess all right. But he'd be a lot less entertaining if he was just sipping lemonade on the porch.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

It was noted here post-game. Strictly the Edmonton game.

I searched it for you. Tanev had a CF% of 48.3, Zadorov of 48.1. They were in the bottom of the team only having better Corsi than Lucic. Your point still stands, it just wasn't close to 25%.

Source

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Fair enough and maybe more than a little truth to it.

That doesnt explain a guy like Sutter coming in with fresh eyes and apparently seeing the same thing....as did Ward, as did Peters etc.!

Oliver Kylington has never played a season of pro hockey without Ryan Huska as his coach. There are no "fresh eyes". Sutter is also a guy who watched how Gulutzan, Peters and Ward used Kylington.

I don't see how any of your argument is any different from your past arguments against a certain other former Flame. It's just... draining at this point to even rebut, knoeing how wrong you were then as well.

Kylington has been typecast and the Flames have zero interest in trying somerhing different with him It is what it is. The organizatiin elects to shoot itself in the foot. I hope for the player's sake he signs elsewhere soon, since it's blatantly obvious he has the talent to do impressive things given a longer leash.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not saying I agree with it, but I think they're trying to reign in his chance taking to make him more reliable shift to shift.

He jumped up and I think went off side, causing the rush to stop, and then the puck was turned over. (my recollection)

Kylington got back, but I think that was the reason he got stapled to the bench.

I saw it similarly, but that's some serious tough love.

I thought the flames had challenges in generating much as far as high danger offense, so thought he'd get some time in the 3rd.

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not saying I agree with it, but I think they're trying to reign in his chance taking to make him more reliable shift to shift.

He jumped up and I think went off side, causing the rush to stop, and then the puck was turned over. (my recollection)

Kylington got back, but I think that was the reason he got stapled to the bench.

While that may well be true, it doesn't bode well for what finally appeared to be Kyllington's chance to break through. 20+ min every night in the preseason to a 3-min leash? Weird player management.

Not to mention Zadorov had twice as many bone-headed decisions and gaffes per minute than Kyllington did. He's dragged Tanev down, where Tanev was helping bring Kyllington up. Come on, Sutter. Give the kid a real chance.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I searched it for you. Tanev had a CF% of 48.3, Zadorov of 48.1. They were in the bottom of the team only having better Corsi than Lucic. Your point still stands, it just wasn't close to 25%.

Source

Their expected goals was what was 25%.

As a pair against Edmonton they were 46.4% Corsi, and 25.8% xGF%, on the ice for 0 GF and 2 GA at 5v5.

Big thing though is with them off the ice the team was great:

73.6% Corsi For
76.4 expected Goals For
1 Goal For
0 Goals Against

So it's quite possible that they were just given the really tough minutes in game 1, letting the other two pairs really succeed.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Oliver Kylington has never played a season of pro hockey without Ryan Huska as his coach. There are no "fresh eyes". Sutter is also a guy who watched how Gulutzan, Peters and Ward used Kylington.

I don't see how any of your argument is any different from your past arguments against a certain other former Flame. It's just... draining at this point to even rebut, knoeing how wrong you were then as well.

Kylington has been typecast and the Flames have zero interest in trying somerhing different with him It is what it is. The organizatiin elects to shoot itself in the foot. I hope for the player's sake he signs elsewhere soon, since it's blatantly obvious he has the talent to do impressive things given a longer leash.

Another thing to add, Huska coached him in the A and gave him meaningful minutes, allowed him to play his game and develop, which Kylington seemed to be successful.
Yet at the NHL level, it's like Huska is simply "agreeing" with the bigger bosses and just another "yes' man.

[dino7c]

Oilers are a one line team so whoever got that matchup the most obviously had a much tougher assignment

[Dion]

[Savvy27]

https://www.nhl.com/flames/video/pre...7092/c-9196808

Sutter is asked about Kylington in his pre-game availability:
-Kylington practices really hard and uses his skillset in practice
-he still needs to get the glaring mistakes that lead to dangerous chances against
-he's been fine
-he told everyone that there are 8 defensemen on the team and that there isn't enough to choose between all of them
-some of them have different skillsets
-Kylington is going to get to play

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Oilers are a one line team so whoever got that matchup the most obviously had a much tougher assignment

So I was just looking at that...and actually it wasn't McDavid that did the most damage against that pair.

Tanev and Zadorov:

vs McDavid: TOI: 3:43. 50% Corsi For, 54.5% xGF, 0 GF, 1 GA
vs RNH: TOI: 4:25, 100% Corsi For, 100% xGF, 0 GF, 0 GA
vs Ryan: TOI: 5.09, 28.5% Corsi For, 4.0% xGF%, 0 GF, 1 GA
vs McLeod: TOI: 1:42, 75% Corsi For, 85.5% xGF%, 0 GF, 0 GA

So it was really that they had a really, really bad shift against the Ryan line most likely, and that likely ended up in his goal (I missed the 1st period so didn't see that goal).

Edit: Was curious so I looked at the shift results chart.

On the shift where Ryan scored it was Backlund, Lewis, Lucic, Tanev, Zadorov against Ryan, Foegele, Kassian, Ceci, Keith.

On that shift it was 0 xGF, 0.3 xGA (which is huge for one shift). For the game they were 0.27 xGF, 0.79 xGA. So most of the issues were on that single shift.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I swear the thought process for some is,

"I like player X and stupid management is blocking his path to making the team"

or

"Stupid coach doesnt play him even if management has kept him on the team"

When the truth is,

Both management AND coaching staff have watched this guy daily for literally years.

In games and in different situations within those games.

In practices and the various drills with different partners within those drills.

Coach after coach after coach have ALL reached the same conclusion about him.

There is something(s) in his game they simply aren't willing to gamble on a full time basis at this point.

I agree this year from limited viewing he has looked better than any time previous.

So maybe it is practice habits or a repeated mistake in certain drills, but there really will be a reason why he is or isn't getting ice time.

We simply don't know, but then turning that unknown into some silly trope that "management stifles every young guy" is patently false.

As noted before, this team has graduated a whole bunch of young guys into NHL players.

All of these same things could be said about Sam Bennett. Seems coach after coach after coach were wrong in their analysis and conclusions about him. So no.... I don't think it is inappropriate for people to question.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm just glad Kylington is back in the mix, that's interesting for me as I had Valimaki as the bigger issue to keep an eye on.

So now whatever path gets Kylington to being a serviceable third pairing guy that can move the puck I'm down for.

Is that more ice time and patience?
Or is that a firm grasp on what he's allowed and not allowed to do and consequences?

Hopefully it works out.

I suspect that Valimaki and Kylington rotate throughout the season and that both will play a decent amount.

It looks like both haven't figured out what type of player they can be at the NHL level and I suspect they will over time.

For Kylington, if you aren't good offensively you have to be dependable defensively and he's not either right now.

[Samonadreau]

Stay out of the box and dominate 5v5 again and we have one in the Win column for sure.

Go Flames

[davidus_49]

Originally Posted by Toonage

They'll likely pull Ward's video at an inopportune time to show us a Rittich video.

Ward's video will go on longer than it should have.

[midniteowl]

Go Flames Go ))))))))