2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I just have never understood the bold statements about a process that none of us know anything about.

Am I too assume you figuered out where the line in the sand should be but none of the Flames management team were aware of it?

To let the pressure point change in the way they did I don't think it's a stretch to assume any or all of the following was true.

1) They think Gaudreau wants to stay and are willing to give it time
2) They looked at moving Gaudreau and didn't like the value in the market

To assume that they just let that deadline slide without a plan at all doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

These are all good points, but you're kind of putting words in Poe969's mouth.

He's not saying that management didn't have a plan. He's saying that he doesn't have faith in management because they lost some of their strategic leverage.

That's a fair take by Poe IMO.

But you're right. 1) and 2) could very well be true. Hopefully we'll see.
With that said, it's been a while since this happened and no deal has been signed. So obviously a deal wasn't that close at the beginning of the offseason. And I don't think they've entertained trading Gaudreau. We've heard nothing on that subject.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I never said give them away...if you have Eichel coming in on a bargain you can afford not to get top dollar for a player or two

The alternative is no Eichel

But you don't have Eichel coming in on a bargain. You're giving up four of your best futures for him, and then taking a bath by trading $10 million worth of cap hits for whatever you can get in a very short time. So as I said, worse now and worse in the future.

[Demetric]

The following seems to work cap wise for both teams:
Eichel $2 mil retained
for
Dube
Valimaki
Zadorov
futures as needed - likely at least 2021 First (protected) + other draft picks / prospects as needed

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

But you don't have Eichel coming in on a bargain. You're giving up four of your best futures for him, and then taking a bath by trading $10 million worth of cap hits for whatever you can get in a very short time. So as I said, worse now and worse in the future.

Have you looked at the last 40 years of Flames prospects and first round picks?

I would take that risk all day long...or they could keep playing it safe

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

No team would be willing to give up an important roster piece, lose Eichel for most of the season with recovery, and give up an unprotected 1st.

Moving to medical records available, and top (3? 10?) protection of the pick is a seismic shift.

I wouldn’t be so sure. Tre knows his sand in the hour glass is almost gone.
Time to swing for the fences.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Have you looked at the last 40 years of Flames prospects and first round picks?

Yes, I have. You talk as if the Flames hadn't drafted any good players at all in the last 40 years, which is ridiculous.

I would take that risk all day long...or they could keep playing it safe

So you're fine with trading (let us say) Zary, Coronato, a 2022 unprotected 1st, a 2023 unprotected 1st, and then giving away Monahan and Coleman for future considerations so you can activate Eichel for the rest of the season?

Now you have a stone-cold Eichel who is not at 100% and may never be again, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to find a RW you can promote to the top six, and after watching your team miss the playoffs by a mile because their shiny new #1 C was weeks away from late-season form and their shiny new #1A RW was just traded for peanuts, you find yourself taking up religion just so you can have someone to pray to that you haven't just given Shane Wright to the Sabres.

As Billy Beane says: ‘The day you say you have to do something, you're screwed. Because you are going to make a bad deal. You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price.’

Paying the Sabres what they want for Eichel, and then dumping $10 million worth of quality NHLers to make room for him under the cap, is absolutely the wrong price. If I owned an NHL team and my GM came to me proposing a deal like that, I wouldn't allow him to wreck my team. If I wanted to rebuild, I would tell him to sell off the roster players and keep all the futures. If I wanted to make a run for it, I would tell him not to trade for any player until he knew exactly how to make the cap work. And if he insisted on trading the farm for an injured player that he couldn't even afford to pay, I'd fire his ass before he could close the deal.

Originally Posted by Yoho

I wouldn’t be so sure. Tre knows his sand in the hour glass is almost gone.
Time to swing for the fences.

If a GM is so desperate to save his job that he will do something blatantly stupid, you fire him before he makes that move, not after. I don't see any possible way that ownership would approve the kind of franchise-busting gamble some of you are talking about.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Demetric

The following seems to work cap wise for both teams:
Eichel $2 mil retained
for
Dube
Valimaki
Zadorov
futures as needed - likely at least 2021 First (protected) + other draft picks / prospects as needed

That deal IMO is really lopsided in Calgary's favor.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I would give up an unprotected pick for Eichel

Mm, yes.

Picks are a chance at an Eichel, whereas an Eichel is an Eichel (as long as healthy).

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Yes, I have. You talk as if the Flames hadn't drafted any good players at all in the last 40 years, which is ridiculous.



So you're fine with trading (let us say) Zary, Coronato, a 2022 unprotected 1st, a 2023 unprotected 1st, and then giving away Monahan and Coleman for future considerations so you can activate Eichel for the rest of the season?

Now you have a stone-cold Eichel who is not at 100% and may never be again, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to find a RW you can promote to the top six, and after watching your team miss the playoffs by a mile because their shiny new #1 C was weeks away from late-season form and their shiny new #1A RW was just traded for peanuts, you find yourself taking up religion just so you can have someone to pray to that you haven't just given Shane Wright to the Sabres.

As Billy Beane says: ‘The day you say you have to do something, you're screwed. Because you are going to make a bad deal. You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price.’

Paying the Sabres what they want for Eichel, and then dumping $10 million worth of quality NHLers to make room for him under the cap, is absolutely the wrong price. If I owned an NHL team and my GM came to me proposing a deal like that, I wouldn't allow him to wreck my team. If I wanted to rebuild, I would tell him to sell off the roster players and keep all the futures. If I wanted to make a run for it, I would tell him not to trade for any player until he knew exactly how to make the cap work. And if he insisted on trading the farm for an injured player that he couldn't even afford to pay, I'd fire his ass before he could close the deal.



If a GM is so desperate to save his job that he will do something blatantly stupid, you fire him before he makes that move, not after. I don't see any possible way that ownership would approve the kind of franchise-busting gamble some of you are talking about.

How many players better than Eichel have the Flames drafted in the first round? In 40 years there are a couple maybe's

Yes I take that risk

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Demetric

The following seems to work cap wise for both teams:
Eichel $2 mil retained
for
Dube
Valimaki
Zadorov
futures as needed - likely at least 2021 First (protected) + other draft picks / prospects as needed

this is the kinda deal you do unprotected if need be...even then you start the car

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dino7c

How many players better than Eichel have the Flames drafted in the first round? In 40 years there are a couple maybe's

You're losing the plot here. It's not about trying to draft an Eichel, but about building a team. You have to draft well to win in the NHL, because even if you do have superstars, you need good cost-controlled assets to fill out your roster. You want to give up four cost-controlled assets (and write off two top-six forwards to make cap space) in exchange for ONE incredibly expensive player. Now you have a big hole in the roster and nobody to fill it with.

In other words, you want the Flames to turn themselves into the Oilers: top-heavy, one-dimensional, and forced to play AHLers well up the roster… only with the poor man's McDavid and no Draisaitl. And you want to destroy their chance at rebuilding for a couple of years after this glorious experiment inevitably blows up in their faces.

Here's a real easy question for you:

Q. How many teams have ever won the Stanley Cup without Jack Eichel on the roster?
A. All of them.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Oh not to worry, he'd just keep having "set backs" in his rehab.

That works if you are a US market like TB or Chicago but you can bet your bottom dollar the league would shut that crap down if a small market Canadian team like the Flames tried it.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Just the absolute worst…. I woke up in confusion as I realized the nasty goal Eichel scored last night for the Flames was a dream. Felt so real. Damn it.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Yes, I have. You talk as if the Flames hadn't drafted any good players at all in the last 40 years, which is ridiculous.



So you're fine with trading (let us say) Zary, Coronato, a 2022 unprotected 1st, a 2023 unprotected 1st, and then giving away Monahan and Coleman for future considerations so you can activate Eichel for the rest of the season?

Now you have a stone-cold Eichel who is not at 100% and may never be again, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to find a RW you can promote to the top six, and after watching your team miss the playoffs by a mile because their shiny new #1 C was weeks away from late-season form and their shiny new #1A RW was just traded for peanuts, you find yourself taking up religion just so you can have someone to pray to that you haven't just given Shane Wright to the Sabres.

As Billy Beane says: ‘The day you say you have to do something, you're screwed. Because you are going to make a bad deal. You can always recover from the player you didn't sign. You may never recover from the player you signed at the wrong price.’

Paying the Sabres what they want for Eichel, and then dumping $10 million worth of quality NHLers to make room for him under the cap, is absolutely the wrong price. If I owned an NHL team and my GM came to me proposing a deal like that, I wouldn't allow him to wreck my team. If I wanted to rebuild, I would tell him to sell off the roster players and keep all the futures. If I wanted to make a run for it, I would tell him not to trade for any player until he knew exactly how to make the cap work. And if he insisted on trading the farm for an injured player that he couldn't even afford to pay, I'd fire his ass before he could close the deal.



If a GM is so desperate to save his job that he will do something blatantly stupid, you fire him before he makes that move, not after. I don't see any possible way that ownership would approve the kind of franchise-busting gamble some of you are talking about.

I think you’re raising a good point, but I would be surprised any team is giving the Sabres the 4 1st round equivalent’s they’ve reportedly been asking. If a team were willing to pay that price, I bet the trade would have been done by now.

I think the Sabres misplayed their hand. For whatever reason, spite maybe, the Sabres should have disclosed Eichel’s medical records well in advance of the draft. The situation, as I see it, is not only are they not going to get full freight on their initial ask, there’s likely going to be conditions on the assets they do get.

Lebrun has an article this morning, he thinks the Sabres will get 60% of what they’ve asked for. This season is a massive question mark for Eichel and any acquiring team. If Eichel sits for the year, what team is suddenly going to offer more than what the Sabres have asked? The whole situation is a mess. Honestly, if I’m Owen Power, and I have a path to UFA, like Fox, I’m looking at the Sabres handling of this situation and wondering if this is where I want to spend the first 5-6 years of my career.

If I’m the Flames;
Monahan
Valimaki/Kylington
Conditional/protected 1st (if the Flames miss the playoffs or Eichel plays less than X number of games the pick slides to next year).

[Tkachukwagon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1446446724894048262

Lebrun’s article in the Athletic specifically mentions Anaheim and Calgary as destinations that are most interested in a trade for Eichel:

That’s why I think Minnesota is likely out of it at this point, for example. The Wild had kept tabs on it for months. But with the buyouts they made this summer and those cap charges moving forward, making room cap-wise for Eichel would require a lot of bodies going out the door.

The Flyers kept tabs on it early on as well but with all their offseason moves, I don’t think they feel like it makes sense anymore. The Rangers have forever been linked to Eichel. I don’t sense they’re as much in it anymore.

The Kings gave it some thought for a while but my sense now is that Los Angeles isn’t that involved. Although things can always change on that front.

Calgary and Anaheim are among teams that have done their due diligence on Eichel and I believe remain interested to some degree. The Ducks, to me, make a lot of sense in the bigger picture. They’re most likely not a playoff team this season, they want to continue to go young, Eichel definitely would fit into that rebuild. But at what price?

And there are other teams very quietly doing their work on this. Teams that haven’t been identified yet.

At the end of the day, at a conditional price, it’s absolutely worth it

[Vinny01]

Love it when Lebrun mentions the Flames in a rumor he has been right before

[jg13]

Lebrun has probably been the insider that has broke the most Flames news in the past 5 years or so.

[Knightslayer]

I think people are over estimating what it will take to make a trade happen at this point.

The return will be underwhelming if you're a Sabres fan.

[Flamesfan05]

Monahan + Andersson + Pelletier + conditional 1st

[Yoho]

Would Monahan sign off on a trade to Buffalo?