08-20-2021, 10:30 AM
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#121
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Franchise Player
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Now that Seattle has filled the slate for the Pacific, the Coyotes are BY FAR the most displaced team geographically. Moving to Houston would reduce total travel in the Central substantially.
Edit: sorry, tried and failed to post a pic of the city locations
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08-20-2021, 10:33 AM
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#122
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Franchise Player
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Things the NHL doesn't really care about:
Even number of teams in divisions and conferences
Reducing travel
Divisional alignments that make geographic sense
History of the sport
Things they do care about:
Maximizing franchise value
Maximizing TV and gate revenue
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08-20-2021, 10:38 AM
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#123
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Things the NHL doesn't really care about:
Even number of teams in divisions and conferences
Reducing travel
Divisional alignments that make geographic sense
History of the sport
Things they do care about:
Maximizing franchise value
Maximizing TV and gate revenue
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TBF Travel costs $, so I assume that the owners affected would be interested in that aspect at least a bit, but definitely not above the other two things you listed.
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08-20-2021, 10:46 AM
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#124
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan!
Glendale has 324 days to fill WITH the Coyotes. Their logic makes no sense at all.
They had 9 concerts a year pre-pandemic.
Suns arena is newly renovated and has always been the preferred concert location
Glendale is pretty much being a spiteful ex GF right now.
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I tend to agree with everything, except the spiteful ex GF. A business wouldn't work that way. As such, it seems they have a BATNA that is better than hosting the Yote games. Perhaps that is a function of them not paying their bills or op costs outweigh the benefit of the 41 nights, I don't know. I am guessing that it might have something to do with the idea that it is 41 nights of revenue, but perhaps more like 123 nights + that need to be booked off to make the ice, etc. 41 nights of revenue, but spread over 123 nights.
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08-20-2021, 10:52 AM
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#125
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazrim
Kansas City is the only place in the US I've visited where someone recognized and commented on my Flames hat. Based on this extremely small sample size I believe KC will be great for hockey!
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Doesn't KC come in second to Buffalo for US TV ratings?
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08-20-2021, 10:56 AM
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#126
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Crash and Bang Winger
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cowtown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
Nowhere near the corporate money or metro population base.
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Metro pop of 2.1 million, 2x bigger than Calgary.
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"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog!" ~ V.Lombardi
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08-20-2021, 10:57 AM
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#127
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Things the NHL doesn't really care about:
Even number of teams in divisions and conferences
Reducing travel
Divisional alignments that make geographic sense
History of the sport
Things they do care about:
Maximizing franchise value
Maximizing TV and gate revenue
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Of course they care about travel. Obviously, franchise value is more important, but travel is a factor.
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08-20-2021, 10:58 AM
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#128
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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08-20-2021, 11:00 AM
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#129
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Franchise Player
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not to mention, hockey-density is completely different in Canada vs US.
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08-20-2021, 11:15 AM
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#130
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Of course they care about travel. Obviously, franchise value is more important, but travel is a factor.
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Not even a blip compared to these other factors.
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08-20-2021, 11:18 AM
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#131
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Not even a blip compared to these other factors.
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Well, the horse has already left the barn with respect to maximizing franchise value in Phx. Them moving is now not only a possibility, but seems fairly likely.
That brings the other issues into play.
Feel free to ignore the discussion on those items.
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08-20-2021, 11:29 AM
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#132
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
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Houston makes the most sense...but that's only if Meruelo wants to sell. My guess is if the NHL is going into Houston then Fertitta is going to want to be the owner.
Kansas City could make sense if Meruelo wants to keep the team, but can't get a favourable arena deal within Phoenix/Arizona.
Meruelo also tried to buy the Atlanta Hawks previously, and has some ties to the Atlanta area....Bring back the Thrashers!
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08-20-2021, 11:32 AM
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#133
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Franchise Player
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IIRC, there was some push by the broadcast rights holder (NBC? Not sure who else before) to have that demographic covered. Though moving to Houston would probably either keep the total number of viewers the same (or increase maybe), they would lose coverage on that demographic. Not sure how important that is in this new deal, but I am sure they go into specifics about teams folding, being relocated, and new teams added for the duration of this TV deal.
Will be curious to see what happens now. I think the NHL will still prefer to keep the Coyotes in Arizona - and I bet it would be rather successful if they had stayed in Phoenix. I am sure the NHL didn't want to move out of Atlanta either, however, but they were basically forced to do so. Really curious where they end up.
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08-20-2021, 11:33 AM
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#134
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Well, the horse has already left the barn with respect to maximizing franchise value in Phx. Them moving is now not only a possibility, but seems fairly likely.
That brings the other issues into play.
Feel free to ignore the discussion on those items.
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It's about maximizing NHL franchise values, not value in Phoenix. That is why relo fees or franchise sale values will be so high.
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08-20-2021, 11:38 AM
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#135
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Doesn't KC actually make more sense than Houston?
- newish arena with ice making ability and no other major tenant
- previous desire to join NHL
- works for Central division
- existing rivalry in STL
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Switch the Blues for the Stars and all of those things are true of Houston except not having another team in the arena. Plus, Houston has more than 3 times the population of KC.
Ultimately, it will come down to the same things it always has: Is there a willing and able owner and is there an arena for the team to play in?
As far as I can tell, Meruelo doesn't have any long-term ties to the Phoenix area. Most of his businesses are in Southern California and Nevada. He might be willing to keep ownership of the team and move it to another city if he can get a favorable lease. He also might just want to wash his hands of the whole thing and sell to a local owner elsewhere who can deal with moving the team.
It really depends if this is just a negotiating tactic by the city, or if they're legitimately done with dealing with the Coyotes.
If Meruelo is close to getting a deal done to build a new arena on the east side of the metro area, he might move the team to a non-ideal location like the old Memorial Coliseum in the meantime. Neither Glendale nor the Suns have any incentive to work with the Coyotes because any new arena will be competing with the existing arenas for bookings.
If a new arena deal isn't any closer to happening than it was 5 years ago, I suspect the team will be moving next season. If they do move, I don't think we'll ever see hockey in the Phoenix metro area any time soon.
If they do move, where they end up is a toss-up, but I suspect we'll soon be hearing about many cities having contacted Meruelo. This is how I would rank the possible destinations in the western/central US... - Houston -- Hockey-ready arena, biggest non-NHL market, Rockets owner has expressed interest in the past
- Kansas City -- Hockey-ready arena, no major tenant in relatively-new arena, no NBA competition
- Portland -- Hockey-ready arena, long history of supporting the WHL, Trailblazers owner previously expressed doubt about putting an NHL team in the market -- but that was before the salary cap, and that owner is now dead with his estate now owning the Blazers and arena
- Milwaukee -- New arena that should be hockey-ready (it was supposed to host a college tournament last Christmas but it was cancelled due to COVID, it is still scheduled for this year), the UW Badgers hockey team has a long history of success and support, do the Bucks owners want to share their building?
- Salt Lake City -- NBA arena can support hockey (the Kings have been playing preseason games there for a few seasons) but at a greatly-reduced capacity and odd seating arrangement, would likely require a new NHL arena for a long-term home
- Oklahoma City -- NBA arena can support hockey, small metro population (about the same as Calgary), could struggle to support two major league teams
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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08-20-2021, 11:40 AM
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#136
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMatt18
Houston makes the most sense...but that's only if Meruelo wants to sell. My guess is if the NHL is going into Houston then Fertitta is going to want to be the owner.
Kansas City could make sense if Meruelo wants to keep the team, but can't get a favourable arena deal within Phoenix/Arizona.
Meruelo also tried to buy the Atlanta Hawks previously, and has some ties to the Atlanta area....Bring back the Thrashers!
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Some people talk about Austin. It's a big market but no arena. And I don't see there being much appetite for public funding for one.
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08-20-2021, 11:51 AM
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#137
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Franchise Player
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but, but, but, they got an A+ on the after draft ranking!!
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Peter12 "I'm no Trump fan but he is smarter than most if not everyone in this thread. ”
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08-20-2021, 11:51 AM
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#138
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
It's about maximizing NHL franchise values, not value in Phoenix. That is why relo fees or franchise sale values will be so high.
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The fact that the league has fought so hard to keep the team in Phoenix flies in the face of your argument that franchise value is the only factor.
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08-20-2021, 11:58 AM
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#139
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Park Hyatt Tokyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonage
I think all of the above works for Houston as well. The arena is about 3 years older though. And a built in rivalry with the Stars.
They would need to change their name to something aeronautic or space related though. Space Coyotes?
Edit - The Texans didn't conform so Coyotes might be alright
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In Texas a coyote is a Mexican smuggler of illegal immigrants.
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08-20-2021, 12:22 PM
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#140
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Calgary Satellite Community
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I guess we'll have another team playing in a saddledome era building if they move to Veterans Coliseum.
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