Seven Days in Kabul

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think he was talking more about actual Canadians that are in country, of which I know there are a few.

Nevermind the Afghans we've employed.

The government should fall over this, but instead we'll elect them with a bigger majority.

Yes that is what I meant. We pulled out military combat wise in 2011. What did we have left there? Just embassy staff?

This is a legitimate question... Not excusing anything.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

we caused this when we overthrew the Taliban 20 years ago, hell when we armed the Majahadin 40 years ago, all of this is on us, we created this whole mess.

When we took over the country it became our responsibility no matter how long it took

So better not to regime change at all? Yes there is fault but you are giving the Afghan leadership a free pass.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I don't know if we 100% caused this. We gave the Afghan government and army everything. Resources, infrastructire, training, weapons and they didn't last a day?

A day? BS. Sorry. That's BS. The ANA have been hard at it for several years. Do you know how many casualties the ANA took in an average year? The ANA suffered more casualties each year than the US suffered in 20 years. When the government wouldn't pay you in a timely manner, when you're not getting fuel, when no one is supplying you with ammunition, and you still show up to the fight, you deserve my respect. When provincial leaders surrender their provinces and their capitals because they're on the take, what do you expect the soldiers to do? Continue fighting? For what? You turn your weapons in and go home. Or, you get the hell out while you can, whether to Iran, Uzbekistan or the last remaining province not under Taliban control with hopes of maybe fighting another day.

[CaptainCrunch]

The story in the Sun about the lack of go ahead by the Libs.


https://torontosun.com/news/national...n-team-sources

Civilian allies of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) are being left to die in Kabul as politicians in Ottawa refuse to give the green light to a ready-to-go evacuation plan, the Sun has learned.
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Several sources within CAF tell the Sun a 17-member Non-combatant Evacuation Operations (NEO) advance team arrived at Ali Al Salem Air Base near Kuwait City late last week to link up with U.S. and U.K. teams already on the ground in Kabul — but have yet to receive orders to deploy.

Those attempting to take advantage of Canada’s impromptu airlift have been hampered by bureaucracy — squabbles over documents and paperwork that are leaving hundreds in danger of deadly retribution by the Taliban.
One embassy worker in contact with the Toronto Sun said he has been forced to watch half-empty airplanes depart from Kabul because Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) staff wouldn’t accept his paperwork without an embassy appointment to submit ‘biometric’ data including fingerprints and photos.

Sources say Canadian military commanders are waging a battle of their own with both Global Affairs Canada and the Prime Minister’s Office to give the rescue mission the green light. They allege Sunday’s election call, and the burgeoning campaign is taking up almost all of Ottawa’s available bandwidth.

“These people were our brothers over there, but we are being left here to watch them die in front of our own eyes,” said one source.
Evacuation plans were apparently finalized Thursday, but the decision to close the Canadian Embassy in Kabul essentially put ongoing evacuation flights in suspended animation.
Another CAF source said that with the Canadian Embassy staff out of the picture and on-the-ground IRCC workers in disarray, the situation for still seeking sanctuary is indeed grim.
After several days of round-trip journeys between Kuwait and Kabul, an RCAF C-17 Globemaster cargo plane departed Kuwait for Cologne, Germany overnight, joined by the aforementioned CC-150 Polaris — the same aircraft occasionally used for VIP transport of government officials, including the prime minister of Canada.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1427468523970961409

https://twitter.com/user/status/1427468722294468612


Feels like a bug out.

[Manhattanboy]

Am sure the Liberals will distort things into a photo-op or two.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

A day? BS. Sorry. That's BS. The ANA have been hard at it for several years. Do you know how many casualties the ANA took in an average year? The ANA suffered more casualties each year than the US suffered in 20 years. When the government wouldn't pay you in a timely manner, when you're not getting fuel, when no one is supplying you with ammunition, and you still show up to the fight, you deserve my respect. When provincial leaders surrender their provinces and their capitals because they're on the take, what do you expect the soldiers to do? Continue fighting? For what? You turn your weapons in and go home. Or, you get the hell out while you can, whether to Iran, Uzbekistan or the last remaining province not under Taliban control with hopes of maybe fighting another day.

This is what I don't get. How can the US withdraw expecting the Afghan government to not fall? Biden said it wouldn't.

Now he is blaming hem
https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/16/polit...ech/index.html

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Its how the Libs work. Be the hand that feeds, and no one will bite it.

We still have people staying home instead of working and collecting COVID relief FFS.

We have super cheap daycare on the way.

We have seniors getting a literal check for nothing.

Who is biting that over going on Facebook and liking a self righteous post then slinking off to vote Justin back in.

Liberals own our slacktivism.

This is the Canadian way. It's why Canada will always be a second rate country.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

So better not to regime change at all? Yes there is fault but you are giving the Afghan leadership a free pass.

You mean the leadership we put in place so it would go along with our plans?

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Am sure the Liberals will distort things into a photo-op or two.

Maybe but it will have to somehow involve Trudeau cosplaying as a person working as well. He can't let his new "Boy Justin" look go to waste.

[Huntingwhale]

https://v.redd.it/33f0wyko4th71

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I don't know if we 100% caused this. We gave the Afghan government and army everything. Resources, infrastructire, training, weapons and they didn't last a day?

Had we not removed air support, it likely wouldn't have been this bad.

Not sure what the US was thinking, but they have no problem killing innocent people with drone's any other day of the week. No idea why they suddenly felt it was so important to stop doing that KNOWING that innocent people would die.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Yes that is what I meant. We pulled out military combat wise in 2011. What did we have left there? Just embassy staff?

This is a legitimate question... Not excusing anything.

Reports were that planes were landing on Canada with diplomatic staff and military personnel (more than likely JTF2), but the plane was half empty and no Afghans on there.

Officially we may not have had troops in country, but I'm sure there were hundreds of Canadians there helping out.

There are also still thousands of Brits, Americans, Germans, French, etc in country who can't even get to the airport. Obviously the entire thing caught everyone by surprise and nobody was prepared.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Azure

Had we not removed air support, it likely wouldn't have been this bad.

Not sure what the US was thinking, but they have no problem killing innocent people with drone's any other day of the week. No idea why they suddenly felt it was so important to stop doing that KNOWING that innocent people would die.

Wasn't just air support, it was any and all foreign contractors, intelligence support, funding for ground assets, etc. Compound all that with general corruption in the Afghan government where some Afghan National Army units were not paid for months, you have a demoralized army that is going to desert or collapse.

At the time Trump and Pompeo didn't care about the consequences. They merely wanted a media "win" prior to the election to boost their re-election chances.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I don't know if we 100% caused this. We gave the Afghan government and army everything. Resources, infrastructire, training, weapons and they didn't last a day?

I saw a quote from someone in the US military who basically said that they had a lot of equipment and such set, but you have to be willing to fight. I have no idea how accurate that is, but that seems to make some sense here given how fast things fell.

And as far as Canada, I think we were caught flat-footed. Once the US pulled up stakes, we were done because we had no option. Maybe we thought we could get people out over the coming months? A week later and the country has fallen though, so by that point there was no way we could’ve acted to get everyone out.

I don’t think that absolves the government of anything, but it does give a plausible explanation aside from “we just decided to leave and let these people be slaughtered”.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

What Trudeau and Canada did (or didn't) do in this situation is just one issue that voters will base their vote on, it's not enough to topple a government. Don't get me wrong.......what is happening there at the moment is brutally heartbreaking to watch, but when voters get in the booth to vote it won't be at the top of the list for most people.

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Sad thing is, it won’t be on their lists at all.

The residential school tragedy happened in our backyard. It was a national story for weeks. Sadly I don't think it'll be a top-10 priority for most voters come Sept 20.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

I saw a quote from someone in the US military who basically said that they had a lot of equipment and such set, but you have to be willing to fight. I have no idea how accurate that is, but that seems to make some sense here given how fast things fell.

And as far as Canada, I think we were caught flat-footed. Once the US pulled up stakes, we were done because we had no option. Maybe we thought we could get people out over the coming months? A week later and the country has fallen though, so by that point there was no way we could’ve acted to get everyone out.

I don’t think that absolves the government of anything, but it does give a plausible explanation aside from “we just decided to leave and let these people be slaughtered”.

Yeah, screw that.

Canada has no excuse for not doing whatever it takes to get people out.

Any and all resources should have been made available, and diplomatic staff should have been given carte blanche to help process applications.

Our government sucks. Our country sucks. We all suck, because in a few months we'll go and elect these morons again.

And if you want to talk about no viable alternative, I'd agree. But we don't have one cause we suck as a country. We should all feel shame for what is happening to those poor people.

Pathetic.

[Matata]

The exit was supposed to be a disaster, how else are the going to get public opinion back to restarting the war with renewed vigor? Things will get worse until there's a major event that ignites the pro-war fervor, then the politicans, think tanks and media will coalesce to tell us that Afganistan just needs a few trillion dollars and 100,000 deaths more and then it will finally be fixed.

[PsYcNeT]

Maybe fighting unwinnable forever wars halfway across the world for no reason other than to sate the pride between a father and son is a bad idea.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

Reports were that planes were landing on Canada with diplomatic staff and military personnel (more than likely JTF2), but the plane was half empty and no Afghans on there.

Officially we may not have had troops in country, but I'm sure there were hundreds of Canadians there helping out.

There are also still thousands of Brits, Americans, Germans, French, etc in country who can't even get to the airport. Obviously the entire thing caught everyone by surprise and nobody was prepared.

Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, screw that.

Canada has no excuse for not doing whatever it takes to get people out.

Any and all resources should have been made available, and diplomatic staff should have been given carte blanche to help process applications.

Our government sucks. Our country sucks. We all suck, because in a few months we'll go and elect these morons again.

And if you want to talk about no viable alternative, I'd agree. But we don't have one cause we suck as a country. We should all feel shame for what is happening to those poor people.

Pathetic.

I don't know, you posted both of these comments, but it seems like two entirely opposing thoughts?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Maybe fighting unwinnable forever wars halfway across the world for no reason other than to sate the pride between a father and son is a bad idea.

Pretty sure it's universally agreed that the war was a bad idea.

But if you are already going to tuck tail and run, at least have a plan to take the people with you who helped you along the way. Afghan interpreters and other citizens who were employed by the West/Nato. Considering the pictures we saw on the tarmac, it's almost certain that death or torture that awaits them at the hands of the Taliban.

A disgusting lack of leadership by the west to not have a plan to save these folks as they leave Afghanistan to their own devices. Tragic.