Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Yeah he was banking on the Johnny/Monahan to carry the heavy lifting but that came to the crashing end 2 yrs ago

And here we are. Problems everywhere.

At the end of the day, the Johnny and Monny team seemed to level off, and then Monny ran into injury problems.

As they go more expensive, the depth suffered, and the Flames are now where they are.

Rebuilding is never a guarantee of success, as you need to get some high end pieces. Generally the Flames drafting has been fine.

But the higher cost of attracting (or keeping) talent in Calgary doesn't help.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Treliving believes you can win with good defensemen

...

Wrong - if he believed that, the Flames defensive corps right now wouldn't be in such a crappy situation right. He's solely dependent on a single goalie to bail the team out singlehandedly. The Flames already had Gio and Brody before he added Hamonic and Hamilton. Tanev is just a plain old solid stay-at-home D-man which Hamonic was supposed to be but turned out more than that. Pretty much whatever Tre build on the D over the years, he's either traded or lost through unprotected draft or lost through free agency. He doesn't go for any big signings on D-man on free agency except for his goalies every 3 years.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Wrong - if he believed that, the Flames defensive corps right now wouldn't be in such a crappy situation right. He's solely dependent on a single goalie to bail the team out singlehandedly. The Flames already had Gio and Brody before he added Hamonic and Hamilton. Tanev is just a plain old solid stay-at-home D-man which Hamonic was supposed to be but turned out more than that. Pretty much whatever Tre build on the D over the years, he's either traded or lost through unprotected draft or lost through free agency. He doesn't go for any big signings on D-man on free agency except for his goalies every 3 years.

No, it’s clear my friend. He spent more resources to obtain dmen than anything
else

It didn’t work doesn’t mean that’s not his plan

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

At the end of the day, the Johnny and Monny team seemed to level off, and then Monny ran into injury problems.

As they go more expensive, the depth suffered, and the Flames are now where they are.

Rebuilding is never a guarantee of success, as you need to get some high end pieces. Generally the Flames drafting has been fine.

But the higher cost of attracting (or keeping) talent in Calgary doesn't help.

Cost of keeping talent?

Last I checked nearly all our top players not named Tkachuk were signed to cap friendly deals and Coleman chose to come here at 4.9AAV when there's no question other suitors would've thrown him a larger number.

If we had been signing guys to oiler contract numbers then this might be a legitimate issue, but for the most part the cost hasn't been ridiculous.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Cost of keeping talent?

Last I checked nearly all our top players not named Tkachuk were signed to cap friendly deals and Coleman chose to come here at 4.9AAV when there's no question other suitors would've thrown him a larger number.

If we had been signing guys to oiler contract numbers then this might be a legitimate issue, but for the most part the cost hasn't been ridiculous.

I was really referring to the fact that as your talent ages, it costs more, and your window becomes known. Most of Calgary’s best players are making decent money, no longer on their ELC.

It was not meant to imply Calgary is paying too much.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think you guys think his process is flawed, but probably are glad there is a process in place.

A terrible process is better than no process? That's the bar for this organization now?

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Does it?
Or it just a valid word he likes to use?

I don't think he's leaving those interviews and breathing a sigh of relief while thinking himself "whew as long as I keep using the word process no one is picking up on the fact I have no idea what I'm doing".

In my workplace the word process gets used a ton too. It's just one of those buzzwords that has taken hold.

Much ado about nothing.

This sums up BT in the last 7 years perfectly.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by zamler

A terrible process is better than no process? That's the bar for this organization now?

You don't want to know how low the bar goes for this organization and certain sections of its fanbase.

[blender]

Well, just popped in because thread was at the top of the page.

Heading back to the weather thread to talk about wildfire Armageddon in BC. It's less painful.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

You don't want to know how low the bar goes for this organization and certain sections of its fanbase.

Don't confuse having a low bar with having a different viewpoint on some issues.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Don't confuse having a low bar with having a different viewpoint on some issues.

Like how high the bar should be?

[Yobbo]

History, to me at least, shows me that it seems to be much harder being a GM in Canada than the US. Canada's drought of Cup's over the past 30 years, plus weather and tax breaks that seems to give the US a huge advantage when building a winning team. That makes me wonder if Tre hasn't done as bad a job as many think. Comparing him to fellow Canadian GM's over his tenure, has he done that badly?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Yobbo

History, to me at least, shows me that it seems to be much harder being a GM in Canada than the US. Canada's drought of Cup's over the past 30 years, plus weather and tax breaks that seems to give the US a huge advantage when building a winning team. That makes me wonder if Tre hasn't done as bad a job as many think. Comparing him to fellow Canadian GM's over his tenure, has he done that badly?

Since Treliving became the GM in 2014:

• Flames: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. One playoff round won. One qualifying round won. First place in Division once, first place in Conference once. Highest Draft Pick: 6th overall.
  
  
• Canucks: Playoffs 2 seasons out of 7. One playoff round won. One qualifying round won. Highest Draft Pick: 5th overall (twice).
  
  
• Oilers: Playoffs 2 seasons out of 7. One playoff round won. One qualifying round lost. Highest Draft Pick: 1st overall.
  
  
• Jets: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. Three playoff rounds won. One qualifying round lost. One Conference Final lost. Highest Draft Pick: 2nd overall.
  
  
• Leafs: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. Zero playoff rounds won. One qualifying round lost. Highest Draft Pick: 1st overall.
  
  
• Sens: Playoffs 2 seasons out of 7. Two playoff rounds won. One Conference Final lost. Highest Draft Pick: 3rd overall.
  
  
• Habs: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. Four playoff rounds won. One qualifying round won. One Conference Final won. One Stanley Cup Final lost. First place in Division twice. Highest Draft Pick: 3rd overall.

[Yobbo]

Originally Posted by getbak

Since Treliving became the GM in 2014:

• Flames: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. One playoff round won. One qualifying round won. First place in Division once, first place in Conference once. Highest Draft Pick: 6th overall.
  
  
  
  
  
• Canucks: Playoffs 2 seasons out of 7. One playoff round won. One qualifying round won. Highest Draft Pick: 5th overall (twice).
  
  
  
  
  
• Oilers: Playoffs 2 seasons out of 7. One playoff round won. One qualifying round lost. Highest Draft Pick: 1st overall.
  
  
  
  
  
• Jets: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. Three playoff rounds won. One qualifying round lost. One Conference Final lost. Highest Draft Pick: 2nd overall.
  
  
  
  
  
• Leafs: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. Zero playoff rounds won. One qualifying round lost. Highest Draft Pick: 1st overall.
  
  
  
  
  
• Sens: Playoffs 2 seasons out of 7. Two playoff rounds won. One Conference Final lost. Highest Draft Pick: 3rd overall.
  
  
  
  
  
• Habs: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. Four playoff rounds won. One qualifying round won. One Conference Final won. One Stanley Cup Final lost. First place in Division twice. Highest Draft Pick: 3rd overall.
  

Awesome, thanks so much!

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by getbak

Since Treliving became the GM in 2014:

• Flames: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. One playoff round won. One qualifying round won. First place in Division once, first place in Conference once. Highest Draft Pick: 6th overall.
  
  
• Canucks: Playoffs 2 seasons out of 7. One playoff round won. One qualifying round won. Highest Draft Pick: 5th overall (twice).
  
  
• Oilers: Playoffs 2 seasons out of 7. One playoff round won. One qualifying round lost. Highest Draft Pick: 1st overall.
  
  
• Jets: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. Three playoff rounds won. One qualifying round lost. One Conference Final lost. Highest Draft Pick: 2nd overall.
  
  
• Leafs: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. Zero playoff rounds won. One qualifying round lost. Highest Draft Pick: 1st overall.
  
  
• Sens: Playoffs 2 seasons out of 7. Two playoff rounds won. One Conference Final lost. Highest Draft Pick: 3rd overall.
  
  
• Habs: Playoffs 4 seasons out of 7. Four playoff rounds won. One qualifying round won. One Conference Final won. One Stanley Cup Final lost. First place in Division twice. Highest Draft Pick: 3rd overall.

Exactly, look at the Canucks playoff results vs the Flames, not a huge difference and we all think Benning sucks. Treliving isn't really doing better

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

Exactly, look at the Canucks playoff results vs the Flames, not a huge difference and we all think Benning sucks. Treliving isn't really doing better

He has made the playoffs twice as much, finished 2nd overall while not drafting as high (being terrible) x2

Its a low bar but Calgary has performed far better than Vancouver

Its hard to be a GM in Canada...especially if not in Toronto or Montreal

If the Flames were in a more desirable location Tre would likely have a much better record (Kadri, Brown, Stone)

[Yobbo]

Originally Posted by dino7c

He has made the playoffs twice as much, finished 2nd overall while not drafting as high (being terrible) x2

Its a low bar but Calgary has performed far better than Vancouver

Its hard to be a GM in Canada...especially if not in Toronto or Montreal

If the Flames were in a more desirable location Tre would likely have a much better record (Kadri, Brown, Stone)

That's just it. Overall Tre, hasn't done that bad of job. Being a smaller market Canadian team is tough.

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, those results scream that Canadian teams are in tough. And also that none of the other teams have bone any better than the Flames (and a couple have been worse)

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I literally said in my post that it would make more sense to me if those that were upset with the guy felt the process was flawed, but to attack the idea that there is one seems silly.

The process as best I can tell is a complete focus on immediate help to the detriment of long term growth. He burnt through draft picks at a higher rate than every NHL team between 16-18. He managed to build an average NHL team. He was one of those rare rebuilding teams who trades high draft picks for immediate value to the detriment of long term benefit that would most likely occur between 2021-2025. Most of the immediate help in those years outside of Hamilton being mediocre. Since 2018 the process seems to be a version of maintaining the status quo in terms of draft picks and adding longer term UFA contracts that should provide immediate value but hurt the team in the backend years (2024-2026). The process as best I can tell is to either sell long term assets for short term gain or sign assets that should provide short term help with the acceptance that they will be detrimental at the backend of the deals. In the end it is really a version of the same process or plan, try to turn an average team into a contender overnight and accept that those moves you are making to try to accomplish that (however unlikely to success they may be) may be detrimental in the long run but could pay off immediately.

That would be my criticism in response to the drive-by comments that we should just give Brad an indefinite period of time to be GM because you need stability in that position.

[powderjunkie]

In aggregate, it seems we're either 3rd or 4th out of 7 (depending how you weigh an ECF vs. 2nd place regular season):

MTL
WPG
OTT/CGY
TOR
EDM
VAN

TBF the Canucks were in a rebuilding phase years 1-5 and the Sens years 3-7...the other 5 teams have been in 'win-now' mode since 2016 or earlier.