[News] Upd: Canadian NHL Teams to require proof of vaccination to attend any arena events

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Thor

Let's not forget this virus is not just about survival rate, the damage this virus does to a very significant % of those who survive it includes all kinds of long-term health issues, lungs, heart, etc..

This is not some unstudied issue either, we first started looking at covid variants near 2000, the vaccine itself is based on research from the mid 0's and has lots of studies behind it already.

Spoiler!

These vaccines and what's in them are well studied, well understood and we have used them on hundreds of millions at this point, so any risk or side effects are already well known, and they are minuscule. The risk of harm from the virus to people, death being the worst, complications after contracting it are very serious and it's not just about individual choice since it's a pandemic, a public health crisis. We are trying to save lives, save the health of people, and it is a small ask to get a jab with an incredibly safe vaccine to protect yourself and your loved ones and those who can't get the vaccines.

Nor should we forget the the percentage of severe outcomes - and the virus when left unfettered, hospitalizations overwhelm our healthcare system. But the unvaccinated seem to not care about this reality. It’s just about themselves. Check out Florida right now. Think of the healthcare professionals that are exhausted and have been completely abandoned by their state government. Think about the people whose surgeries are now being postponed.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by skyceman

not sure i agree that those who already contracted covid and now have natural immunity do not qualify.

🤦#♂️

[Jbo]

Love the people that love to prat on about freedoms without taking any of the responsibility that “freedom” comes with. Freedom isnt free. Stop acting entitled to anything.

I wish our province had any kind of backbone to do the same rather then try to appease a crowd that won’t be satisfied with anything regardless.

[flamesgod]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Or if you’d rather an ethicist’s opinion:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...afer-1.6122386

“The case for vaccine passports seems to pass all of Mill's tests: Public health is a supreme value; restoring liberty to as many people as possible as quickly and safely as possible is a pressing social need. There will be a reduction of liberty for the unvaccinated but the harm done will be proportional. “

You know you’re desperate when you start quoting the CBC.

[Infinit47]

It's always strange to see otherwise intelligent people believe their right to do as they please exists in a vacuum, and the impact of their actions on other people is irrelevant.

We live in an incredibly free society where people's freedom to act is largely limited only when it harms other people.

Rights come with responsibilities. The right to attend a hockey game comes with the responsibility to not spread a deadly virus for which their are multiple safe and effective (and free) vaccines.

Further, appeals to out of context international law over very clear Canadian law are the epitome of grasping at straws.

I hope the Flames announce the same policy today.

[Boreal]

They won’t enact restrictions again, and why would they restrict vaccinated people.

There is enough dry timber (unvaccinated people) to keep this forest fire (pandemic) burning (hospitalized people) for a long time. Let the antivaxxers sit outside.

If they want to think there is a third option beyond vaccine passports or restrictions they will be disappointed.

I mean what options do they have? I doubt they can pass legislation to make unvaccinated people pay the complete costs of their health care if they’re hospitalized from Covid. That might be an incentive to get vaccinated, but even that would have limitations and be more complex than restricting antivaxxers.

But I do love the lunatic argument that vaccine passports violate personal freedoms. It’s cute.

Why not call them empathy licenses or something similar instead. You need a drivers license to verify you can properly operate a motor vehicle to minimize harm to other humans. Why not an empathy license to enter mass gathering or private places to verify you have properly taken steps to minimize harm to other humans especially children.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by Jbo

Love the people that love to prat on about freedoms without taking any of the responsibility that “freedom” comes with. Freedom isnt free. Stop acting entitled to anything.

I wish our province had any kind of backbone to do the same rather then try to appease a crowd that won’t be satisfied with anything regardless.

You just beat me to it. People always forget about their responsibilities.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

You know you’re desperate when you start quoting the CBC.

You know you’ve exposed your critical thinking skills when you think people are desperate when they start quoting the CBC.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

"Natural immunity" is not very effective vs. the variant strains, and then you have to decid what to do with those who had a presumed COVID-19+ status due to symptoms and known exposure without a positive test result. Two doses of mRNA vaccine are easy to demonstrate and are the most protective state.

Actually.... exactly the opposite. If you simply have immunity from the mRna vaccination for COVID you just have antigen immunity based on just one protein (the spike protein)... if you had COVID and are immune, your immunity is based on multiple proteins in/on the virus and you also have Killer T cell immunity which has a far wider range of immunity because a variant virus can be recognized by your immune system and dealt with immediately, where the vaccine immunity may not. The virus is adapting (like the Delta variant) by changing it's spike protein, and that's why the vaccine's are failing against it, even though the virus is 99.9% identical to the original strain, the difference, the spike protein. People that have had some sort of COVID influenza or SARS (2003) previously are finding out that they are also immune from COVID even though those viruses are only 80% or so identical to COVID19 - having Killer T cells recognize some of the proteins on a virus are good enough for your immune system to react to that strain and start the immune response immediately. If you only recognize the spike protein, the protein that varies the most from strain to strain I might add... that's not long lasting immunity. Science.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Actually.... exactly the opposite. If you simply have immunity from the mRna vaccination for COVID you just have antigen immunity based on just one protein (the spike protein)... if you had COVID and are immune, your immunity is based on multiple proteins in/on the virus and you also have Killer T cell immunity which has a far wider range of immunity because a variant virus can be recognized by your immune system and dealt with immediately, where the vaccine immunity may not. The virus is adapting (like the Delta variant) by changing it's spike protein, and that's why the vaccine's are failing against it, even though the virus is 99.9% identical to the original strain, the difference, the spike protein. People that have had some sort of COVID influenza or SARS (2003) previously are finding out that they are also immune from COVID even though those viruses are only 80% or so identical to COVID19 - having Killer T cells recognize some of the proteins on a virus are good enough for your immune system to react to that strain and start the immune response immediately. If you only recognize the spike protein, the protein that varies the most from strain to strain I might add... that's not long lasting immunity. Science.

This is simply wrong. The CDC released a study on Aug 6th which demonstrated reinfection rates among people with "natural immunity" were twice those of people who were fully vaccinated.

[Looch City]

So how does the venn diagram look for anti vax vs. "it's just a flu" folk from 1yr ago?

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I don’t recall seeing it. Maybe it went to select season ticket holders.

Yikes get some rest man!

Thanks. It's been a tough run, that's for sure...

I found the email, so I'm not crazy!
It was from nhl.com, "On behalf of the Calgary Flames", done by JD Power, and came in May, 2021.

[stazzy33]

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1425830909786214404

[Boreal]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1425595216753528832

[the_only_turek_fan]

As I have stated in a previous post, I am choosing to not go to games as a result.

I totally respect the right to not get vaccinated. Do I disagree? Yes. Do I think you are being selfish? Yes.

This is super annoying. There is a variant that has been produced because of people not getting vaccinated and my 4 and 8 year old are going to start school next month. That scares me. This variant is starting to affect kids more than the original strain.

My wife is an ER Doctor. I have seen the stress that this has put on health care workers.

The last 16 months have really shown people's true colours.

[troutman]

[Skyceman]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Actually.... exactly the opposite. If you simply have immunity from the mRna vaccination for COVID you just have antigen immunity based on just one protein (the spike protein)... if you had COVID and are immune, your immunity is based on multiple proteins in/on the virus and you also have Killer T cell immunity which has a far wider range of immunity because a variant virus can be recognized by your immune system and dealt with immediately, where the vaccine immunity may not. The virus is adapting (like the Delta variant) by changing it's spike protein, and that's why the vaccine's are failing against it, even though the virus is 99.9% identical to the original strain, the difference, the spike protein. People that have had some sort of COVID influenza or SARS (2003) previously are finding out that they are also immune from COVID even though those viruses are only 80% or so identical to COVID19 - having Killer T cells recognize some of the proteins on a virus are good enough for your immune system to react to that strain and start the immune response immediately. If you only recognize the spike protein, the protein that varies the most from strain to strain I might add... that's not long lasting immunity. Science.

This is also what Dr. Ryan Cole, a Mayo Clinic-trained pathologist who runs the largest independent laboratory in Idaho, recently said:

“A natural infection induces hundreds upon hundreds of antibodies against all proteins of the virus, including the envelope, the membrane, the nucleocapsid, and the spike,” said Dr. Cole, who has spent the past 16 months examining and culturing SARS-CoV-2 specimens. “Dozens upon dozens of these antibodies neutralize the virus when encountered again. Additionally, because of the immune system exposure to these numerous proteins (epitomes), our T cells mount a robust memory, as well. Our T cells are the ‘marines’ of the immune system and the first line of defense against pathogens. T cell memory to those infected with SARSCOV1 is at 17 years and running still.”

However, in vaccine-induced immunity, according to Cole, “we mount an antibody response to only the spike and its constituent proteins.” Cole explained how this produces much fewer neutralizing antibodies, and “as the virus preferentially mutates at the spike, these proteins are shaped differently and antibodies can no longer ‘lock and key’ bind to these new shapes.”

[Jaybo]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You know perfectly well this isn't just about going to hockey games. In Quebec (I saw the news about this yesterday) it's about going to bars, restaurants, or gyms. It will be about retail stores and offices next. If the bureaucrats get their way, you will be literally forbidden to go to any public place or place of business without a vaccination passport.

For ~16 months most people in society limited where they went. Now that we have a vaccine, those same people are asking gov’t to limit the access (not the freedom) of those who refuse to do the right thing.

You answered your own question - want to have access to bars and restaurants and large events and international travel? Get vaccinated and carry a vaccine passport (just like you carry ID to drive, buy booze, cross borders, etc.)

[troutman]

Live Nation Concerts May Require Attendees Be Vaccinated For Covid-19


https://www.forbes.com/sites/kimberl...h=60f31f2c4d4c