[News] Upd: Canadian NHL Teams to require proof of vaccination to attend any arena events

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You planning to provide some data for any of your claims?

Or have you been studying the data all year and, gosh, it’s just too complex for us simpletons to understand?

The trouble is, I have been studying the data and — there aren't any. Estimates of the effectiveness and duration of vaccines are all over the place. Estimates of the effectiveness and duration of natural immunity after being infected are all over the place. Estimates of the degree to which any immunity protects you from new variants are – well, they're not all over the place because people are generally not dumb enough to commit to making WAGs on that question.

Here's a number for you. Suppose you were vaccinated (say) nine months ago, or alternatively, were infected with COVID at that time and recovered. How much immunity do you have now against the current variants? The error bar starts at zero. It ends somewhere short of 100 percent, but how far short, no two experts agree.

When my claim is that there are no reliable data, it is just plain obtuse to expect me to provide reliable data for that claim.

[FireItUp]

Originally Posted by Boreal

Let’s see. Off the top of my head, international travel and other privileges that impact other people’s medical future.

This right here shows you have no clue about what you're talking about and it's the main problem with the "Vaxed" argument. The vaccine does not prevent people from catching Covid.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Boreal

I say you have immunity to empirical facts, logic, and reason. Submit facts you didn’t fart out of your mouth and I’ll return the favour.

Your rudeness is noted. The fact that you have no argument except for being rude is also noted.

Oh boy more privilege.

Where the living hell did you get ‘privilege’ out of anything I said? Oh, I remembered: you're a ‘woke’ fanatic and think that insult is sufficient to win any argument. Too bad, you're wrong.

Don’t like to stay home… get vaccinated.
Feeling grossly oppressed… get vaccinated.
Feeling like minimizing COVID risks to children… get vaccinated.

Feel like going anywhere… being vaccinated doesn't get you there. Wait for the government to give you a piece of paper proving you have been vaccinated. If they choose not to give you that piece of paper, stay home until the day you die. Fun, huh?

I’m not sure, but I don’t think there was a vaccine decades ago to enable white privilege for indigenous people without losing their treaty status, but go on about your oppression and fear mongering.

What does this garbage even mean? This isn't about a vaccine. It's about the fact that the state can arbitrarily refuse to give you a document without which your basic human rights are abolished. Do yourself a favour and Google ‘social credit China’. If you like, you can follow it up with ‘Soviet Union internal passport’.

It was wrong when the Canadian government imposed such a system on Aboriginals. It will be equally wrong if they impose such a system on everyone.

Your privileges are not rights and your inconvenience is not oppression.

Freedom of movement and freedom of association are basic human rights, not privileges. Taking them away from people is oppression. I do not trust any state agency to decide who should or should not have such basic rights, because frankly, it might be staffed by people like you.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Honestly, if I don’t ever go to a game again that is fine. I am seriously considering removing anti-vaxers from my life.

People have the right to be stupid.

I have the right to not associate with stupid people.

Get your shot you selfish pricks.

Do you question all your kids (if you have any which I don't want to assume) to provide you with proof of all vaccinations from measles to TB to provide you with proof before allowing them into your gatherings? If not what is the difference?

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by FireItUp

This right here shows you have no clue about what you're talking about and it's the main problem with the "Vaxed" argument. The vaccine does not prevent people from catching Covid.

The thing about both sides is that not many people know what the hell they are talking about, including you.

[Beatle17]

[QUOTE=CalgaryFan1988;7955907]The thing about both sides is that not many people know what the hell they are talking about, including you.[/..QUOTE]

And you.

[CalgaryFan1988]

[QUOTE=Beatle17;7955911]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

The thing about both sides is that not many people know what the hell they are talking about, including you.[/..QUOTE]

And you.

Of course not, how would my post indicate otherwise?

I just find it funny that even the smartest scientists in the world don't really know much, but we have people in an online community running each other down acting like they know everything.

[direwolf]

Well this thread has gone completely off the rails as expected.

[HalifaxDrunk]

TIL - there are CPers who I used to have a self-level of respect for that's gone the way of Smallpox. Wow.

[zamler]

Does anyone know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to covid? I've lost track of the yo-yo arguments.

I think everyone should be vaccinated but it should always be a choice, I don't like the idea of creating a tiered society. And the comparison to a drivers license is not a good one you don't have to inject something in your body then prove you've done it to legally drive a car.

I can't help but wonder if the pressure to get vaccinated is causing more people to not do it. Maybe that's not the case. It would be nice to be able to have a nuanced discussion but that isn't possible with most people, if someone isn't vaccinated they are treated shall we say, badly.

.....about 97% of hospitalizations being non vaxxed, source on this?

[PegCityFlamesFan]

"My research indicates otherwise" is my favourite response to vaccines.

[FireItUp]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

The thing about both sides is that not many people know what the hell they are talking about, including you.

So you reply to my argument with absolutely nothing that adds value to your argument. Genius!

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by FireItUp

So you reply to my argument with absolutely nothing that adds value to your argument. Genius!

I don't come here to argue. I would rather be honest, rather than pretend I know what I'm talking about and sound like an idiot.

[Chonger]

Originally Posted by Skyceman

My fully-vacinated buddy just contracted COVID.

Good thing he got those untested rushed out vaccines

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by FireItUp

This is the problem with people today. When was it ever okay to ask people about their medical history? Secondly, most of the people aren't "anti-vaxers", they're just more concerned about this specific vaccine. It's new technology, not enough studies have been done on it, and we have no clue about the long-term side effects. If your going to sit there calling people stupid for having concerns about it, they're better off without you.

It has always been ok. You can’t travel to many places and you can’t sign your kids up for school are just two common examples.

[djsFlames]

Well done WPG.

Nice to see someone enploy common sense.

Hopefully this becomes commonplace for large scale events where there is close contact. Time to stop granting the unvaccinated the same access to things while they continue to pose a threat to our health care system (and for no good reason).

[sekimet]

Originally Posted by FireItUp

This is the problem with people today. When was it ever okay to ask people about their medical history? Secondly, most of the people aren't "anti-vaxers", they're just more concerned about this specific vaccine. It's new technology, not enough studies have been done on it, and we have no clue about the long-term side effects. If your going to sit there calling people stupid for having concerns about it, they're better off without you.

mRNA vaccines have been in research for over 20 years, how new is too new for you?

Weird how you are concerned about hypothetical long term side effects from a vaccine while ignoring the documented long term side effects from covid.

How many studies would convince you? There have been ~4.56 billion covid vaccine shots given worldwide with 0.023% having side effects (extrapolated from canadas data) that in itself is a huge sample worth noting. What type of study would it take to placate your fears?

Honestly I respect anyones decision to do with their own body what they like, but when those decisions put others at risk, you should not be surprised if you are excluded form aspects of society like private events etc.

Just my two cents.
(Canada's data: https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...accine-safety/ )

[timbit]

Originally Posted by zamler

Does anyone know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to covid? I've lost track of the yo-yo arguments.

I think everyone should be vaccinated but it should always be a choice, I don't like the idea of creating a tiered society. And the comparison to a drivers license is not a good one you don't have to inject something in your body then prove you've done it to legally drive a car.

I can't help but wonder if the pressure to get vaccinated is causing more people to not do it. Maybe that's not the case. It would be nice to be able to have a nuanced discussion but that isn't possible with most people, if someone isn't vaccinated they are treated shall we say, badly.

.....about 97% of hospitalizations being non vaxxed, source on this?

Post#61

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You know perfectly well this isn't just about going to hockey games. In Quebec (I saw the news about this yesterday) it's about going to bars, restaurants, or gyms. It will be about retail stores and offices next. If the bureaucrats get their way, you will be literally forbidden to go to any public place or place of business without a vaccination passport.

Which I'm Ok with. If people CAN get vaccinated and choose not to - then they are choosing not to be able to do those things.

You've got 3 groups
People who CAN and DO get vaccinated
People who CANNOT and therefore do not get vaccinated
^these are the people we need to make sure are not hindered in this.

Then you have
People who CAN and DO NOT get vaccinated

F them.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The trouble is, I have been studying the data and — there aren't any. Estimates of the effectiveness and duration of vaccines are all over the place. Estimates of the effectiveness and duration of natural immunity after being infected are all over the place. Estimates of the degree to which any immunity protects you from new variants are – well, they're not all over the place because people are generally not dumb enough to commit to making WAGs on that question.

Here's a number for you. Suppose you were vaccinated (say) nine months ago, or alternatively, were infected with COVID at that time and recovered. How much immunity do you have now against the current variants? The error bar starts at zero. It ends somewhere short of 100 percent, but how far short, no two experts agree.

When my claim is that there are no reliable data, it is just plain obtuse to expect me to provide reliable data for that claim.

If your claim is that there is no reliable data, or that there “aren’t any data,” then you can meet the threshold by proving your credentials that allow you to make those claims with any notion of authority whatsoever.

So buck up or shut up. Let’s see your credentials. I seem to be able to find data that you say doesn’t exist and I seem to be able to track results from studies that seem less “all over the place” and more practical and expected given the nature, location, and variables of the studies. But you’re telling me what I’m seeing is wrong or isn’t reliable, so show your credentials.

Put them up, and I’ll take what you say as an expert opinion.