2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Never understood why fans get so obsessed with mediocre prospects.

It’s because the Eichel speculating is running out of gas

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Goriders

It’s probably because they think the other players are better.

Occam’s razor? That’s a good explanation. I suppose I’m just frustrated because I think he’s been given less opportunity than he should have been, and that is holding him back from realizing his potential. It seems like Kylington plays a good game and then doesn’t play the next game for some reason I don’t understand. It could just be they don’t agree he plays well enough. That’s the simplest explanation.

But I feel like it’s fair to question the team’s decision-making on a forum like this.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Cleared waivers. Didn't Tyler Johnson clear waivers? Didn't Markstrom at some point? The waivers argument is a pretty weak one.

You are forgetting the league min salary part

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Cleared waivers. Didn't Tyler Johnson clear waivers? Didn't Markstrom at some point? The waivers argument is a pretty weak one.

Tyler Johnson did clear waivers. So, TB needed to include a 2nd round pick to move him.


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[FlamesAddiction]

Markstrom, Byron, St. Louis, Hoffman, Dubnyk, Kunitz, Panik, Peverley all cleared waivers at some point and went on to have decent careers. It's not necessarily the kiss of death. I am sure there are many other examples.

I think Kylington has dazzled with some potential and could be one of those late bloomers. I would not be surprised if he makes the team full time this next season.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Markstrom, Byron, St. Louis, Hoffman, Dubnyk, Kunitz, Panik, Peverley all cleared waivers at some point and went on to have decent careers. It's not necessarily the kiss of death. I am sure there are many other examples.

I think Kylington has dazzled with some potential and could be one of those late bloomers. I would not be surprised if he makes the team full time this next season.

Huselius comes to mind as well.

[howard_the_duck]

Kristian Huselius once cleared waivers too. It’s not really a thing. With the cap and roster limits it’s not uncommon to see guys get snuck through on the regular.

For young players like Kylington and Bennett, it’s about opportunity and definition on their roles where I think the flames have fell short. One great thing about Sutter - he’s an outstanding communicator and is great at putting veterans in spots to thrive. It’s a bit murkier when it comes to developing talent, so will be an interesting development this season with some big roles to be filled by young players.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Occam’s razor? That’s a good explanation. I suppose I’m just frustrated because I think he’s been given less opportunity than he should have been, and that is holding him back from realizing his potential. It seems like Kylington plays a good game and then doesn’t play the next game for some reason I don’t understand. It could just be they don’t agree he plays well enough. That’s the simplest explanation.

But I feel like it’s fair to question the team’s decision-making on a forum like this.

I think Kylington shows the classic signs of playing afraid to make mistakes. He plays like this because he gets punished for making them.
I understand that unlike forwards, defence mistakes are rather glaring - in zone defending mistakes, offensive blue line mistakes etc. Teams can not have mistake prone defenceman playing at the NHL level. Sort that out in the minors.

However Kylington isn't a first round pick (these prized assets get more leeway) and the meritocracy in sports isn't so set in stone (there are favourites). Also, guys like Andersson didn't make the same kind of mistakes - a guy also not a first rounder and he played well and moved up the depth chart.

So, I don't agree it's some thing against Kylington the human being. I do think his pedigree is something of an offensive guy - and through trying to settle his defensive game down it's kind of taken away from what got him drafted in the first place - his offensive skills. The benchings from mistakes compound this.

I agree that it's a big jump from minor pro to NHL and I agree that he has to show more. I just hope the team is considering if the carrot/stick is being used correctly. And it's not easy. Individual Human dynamics! Individual Maturity! Creating environments for success! All these things need to be balanced and if it's off a little they can have outsized downstream effects:

Greg Gilbert thinks Marc Savard is lazy and wants him shipped out. Shortly after Savard matures and becomes a star player.

*This one is still to be settled* but many people think Bennett is not a good player - doesn't think the game well, tries to do too much himself. Goes to a different place and seems to show all those qualities many experts thought he didn't have.

With Kylington people say 4 different coaches: Well Bill Peters and Geoff Ward were part of same staff - I don't treat this a 2 different coaches. I see one staff.

Also maybe Huska is too set in how he approaches. I really like him - has the mentality of high performance coach but what I'm saying is if the Flames have kind of established the boundary parameters about who he is, what he needs to do etc then I can see why multiple people in that system come to the same conclusion.

He might not be good enough (not my personal opinion). I do think he needs to show those skills but I could believe the fixing of one aspect has taken over his development to the detriment of his other aspects that actually got him drafted.

If that makes sense!

EDIT: I would hope the team is constantly questioning their assumptions, especially when dealing with human performance. I think wisdom is great but if one thinks - I've done and seen it all and I know when I see it. Test that. Constantly. Improve your decision making process.

[FlamesAddiction]

Grabner as well.

[Enoch Root]

As someone said, quoting waivers to suggest player value is lazy, if the reasons for the waivers aren't considered. Timing and salary are also important. As is how long ago it happened.

In Kylington's case, I think it does reflect that he probably isn't valued any higher elsewhere. I don't think the Flames are guilty of anything here, I think he just hasn't shown anything at the NHL level yet.

Doesn't mean it isn't there though.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Markstrom, Byron, St. Louis, Hoffman, Dubnyk, Kunitz, Panik, Peverley all cleared waivers at some point and went on to have decent careers. It's not necessarily the kiss of death. I am sure there are many other examples.

I think Kylington has dazzled with some potential and could be one of those late bloomers. I would not be surprised if he makes the team full time this next season.

Yup not a kiss of death

But there are thousands of others that went on and disappeared

It really doesn’t mean everything but unless the Flames start to give him chances and he starts to show something, he is coming close to the end with the Flames

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As someone said, quoting waivers to suggest player value is lazy, if the reasons for the waivers aren't considered. Timing and salary are also important. As is how long ago it happened.

In Kylington's case, I think it does reflect that he probably isn't valued any higher elsewhere. I don't think the Flames are guilty of anything here, I think he just hasn't shown anything at the NHL level yet.

Doesn't mean it isn't there though.

Last year in particular is a weird one. No revenue meant that many teams did not want to spend real money. While it was "only" league minimum, it was still adding an additional expense that wasn't needed. Some teams might have been more willing to take a chance on him in a regular year as a low-risk move, but he was wasn't likely to move the needle either, so why take on the expense with no revenue coming in.

Add the quarantine issues for any team outside of Canada claiming him, and it was another factor to not claim players. Nothing about last season was normal.

[Calgary4LIfe]

While I wouldn't call the waivers thing as a lazy argument, I will say that it isn't a very good argument.


I don't think that anyone here rates Kylington as a 'blue-chip' prospect. Put any blue-chip prospect on waivers at ANY time, and they get claimed, no questions asked.


Kylington is a 'B-level prospect' to me - some upside, some proven floor already, but didn't show as elite-level at the NHL or AHL level yet. I think you put most of those guys on waivers when teams have to finalize their rosters, they don't usually get claimed. Teams have their own guys that they are pushing through - some of them might be better, some of them might be roughly the same. However, would these organizations like to acquire Kylington for free? Every other organization in the NHL would like to have Kylington for free, and why not? He is a legitimate asset.


I would be shocked if he passed through waivers during the middle of the season. I don't get the argument that because he passed waivers once when every team is trying to finalize their own rosters, that he suddenly has zero value. There is a very large difference in value between "blue chip or elite", "B-level", "C-level" and absolutely worthless. With waivers, timing is an important factor.


I do, however, think that Kylington is essentially worthless to the Flames right now, for as long as Sutter remains the coach at least. He doesn't seem to like Kylington, and prefers Mackey and Stone, and that's fine. I hope he gets claimed this time around and finds a spot with a different organization to get his opportunity. He was really strong in the AHL I thought, and I do think that his defensive ability is actually quite good given his age.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Let me just throw something out there that is going to be a bit of an out of left field consideration…. Could it be possible… nah I won’t even say it because it isn’t possible.



But…



Ok ok, I’m going to go off the grid here….. is it remotely feasible… by any account, that maybe Kylington just isn’t good enough at hockey.

No. He's clearly going to be better than Bobby Orr. Treliving isn't smart enough to realize that and neither are his coaches.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Buff

No. He's clearly going to be better than Bobby Orr. Treliving isn't smart enough to realize that and neither are his coaches.

I knew it…… sorry for the suggestion…

[Nelson]

I want him to be the day in day out 3rd pairing defenceman on the right side. That’s all. I think Kylington has earned that chance.

[dino7c]

People are missing the point of the waivers thing...posters are acting like he is a star but Calgary management is holding him back for no reason. The point is other NHL teams see him the same way currently. I hope he has an awesome year but if he wants a shot he will have to earn it by playing better in all areas.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by dino7c

People are missing the point of the waivers thing...posters are acting like he is a star but Calgary management is holding him back for no reason. The point is other NHL teams see him the same way currently. I hope he has an awesome year but if he wants a shot he will have to earn it by playing better in all areas.

For sure. There’s no missing the fact that no one had an every day spot for him on their NHL roster even though he was being paid the NHL minimum. But I think there’s a possibility that the reason for that is that his opportunities have been too limited. If his opportunities have been too limited, none of us know the reason why. I threw out implicit or unconscious bias as a possible contributing factor, but I have no idea. The simplest explanation is that the organization, for legitimate, hockey reasons, simply believes Kylington is not good enough for the opportunity to play a full season.

[TheScorpion]

Are we talking about players who cleared waivers?

Mark Stone.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Anderson & Valimaki also didn't play up to expectations last year, so throwing Kylington into the mix would have been too many young unreliable guys at once.

If those guys become more solid, it may help Kylington get some time as the team can afford to use a spot on a higher risk/reward player when the others are solid.