Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Dube does not get enough credit here. I think he will break out this year and be an excellent player. Picks are magic beans…… you think a 1st in the 20-32 range will be better than Dube or Valimaki? Doubt it.

you've actually just demonstrated why Buffalo probably wouldn't like your futures only proposal. If I'm Buffalo, I definitely want a guy like Dube (or even Mangiapane) in the deal.

I get your argument, but the trade has to make sense for the other team too.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by devo22

you've actually just demonstrated why Buffalo probably wouldn't like your futures only proposal. If I'm Buffalo, I definitely want a guy like Dube (or even Mangiapane) in the deal.

I get your argument, but the trade has to make sense for the other team too.

Yes can’t argue that point with you for sure. Just not sure where Adams head is at on what he wants for return.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

I never meant all of them, I meant a combination of the mix as what you proposed. Not sure overall we are stronger with the assets going the other way as you propose, but I understand you have to give up assets. I would be more in line with giving Buffalo multiple firsts instead of roster players,

Zary/Pelletier, 2022 1st, 2023 1st

Then we could move Monahan for areas we require support or other prospects.

I am not on the Eichel train, don’t think he is the same player on the other side of this surgery.

Zary/Pelletier, 2022 1st, 2023 1st

I would make the deal if that was the squeeze. Unfortunately we do have to move some salary in the deal. I'm not sure how much Buffalo bites on that based on what they are saying. I think that the toxicity of the current situation may help and lessen Buffalo's ask, but not that much. I would be open to Pelletier, Valimaki, the Flames choice of an unprotected 2022 1st,/2023 1st, and finally a 2024 1st, I could get behind that. That would leave the Flames the opportunity to make another deal or two and recoup the assets lost. I know Monahan has a target on his back right now, but I would move Tkachuk and Kylington to St. Louis for Parayko, Kyrou, Neighbors and a 2nd in 2022.

Gaudreau-Eichel-Lindholm
Mangiapane-Monahan-Kyrou
Dube-Backlund-Coleman
Lucic-Lewis-Pitlick
Ritchie

Hanifin-Tanev
Zadorov-Andersson
Mackey-Parayko
Stone

Markstrom
Darth Vader

That would leave us Zary, Coronato, and Neighbors in the pipeline up front, Kuznetsov, Poirier, and Whynot on the blueline, and then Wolf in goal as out prospect base. Thin, but not terrible considering the team on the ice on the big club.

Worth the squeeze? Don't know, but would be an interesting club to watch.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Zary/Pelletier, 2022 1st, 2023 1st

I would make the deal if that was the squeeze. Unfortunately we do have to move some salary in the deal. I'm not sure how much Buffalo bites on that based on what they are saying. I think that the toxicity of the current situation may help and lessen Buffalo's ask, but not that much. I would be open to Pelletier, Valimaki, the Flames choice of an unprotected 2022 1st,/2023 1st, and finally a 2024 1st, I could get behind that. That would leave the Flames the opportunity to make another deal or two and recoup the assets lost. I know Monahan has a target on his back right now, but I would move Tkachuk and Kylington to St. Louis for Parayko, Kyrou, Neighbors and a 2nd in 2022.

Gaudreau-Eichel-Lindholm
Mangiapane-Monahan-Kyrou
Dube-Backlund-Coleman
Lucic-Lewis-Pitlick
Ritchie

Hanifin-Tanev
Zadorov-Andersson
Mackey-Parayko
Stone

Markstrom
Darth Vader

That would leave us Zary, Coronato, and Neighbors in the pipeline up front, Kuznetsov, Poirier, and Whynot on the blueline, and then Wolf in goal as out prospect base. Thin, but not terrible considering the team on the ice on the big club.

Worth the squeeze? Don't know, but would be an interesting club to watch.

Interesting, outside Monahan and the fourth line that is a fast lineup. I like it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

How about Buffalo sue Eichel for breach of contract and it cost him every cent he's earned, and every cent he could potentially earn? No way do the Sabres allow a player that is their most valuable asset to skate on the terms of his contract. Eichel would then be starting a war with the Sabres, and as a result of the potential for this to be come a bigger issue, every franchise in the NHL.

This could blossom into something much much larger. Right now the NHLPA is clearly staying on the sidelines as this could threaten the NHL teams from having to be concerned about player health or safety and then not have any responsibility in providing insurance for the players. If you're telling the team to go #### themselves in regards to managing player health, the natural progression is to pass that responsibility off to the players all together, along with associated costs. That is a massive CBA issue, and could put the CBA at risk. This is no small issue.



Why would Buffalo void the contract? They only hurt themselves.



Again, why would Buffalo do this? They are better off waiting it out and putting the squeeze on Eichel. Suspend him, save the money, and wait for him to crack. It's not like the Sabres are any good with him in the line up. What's their loss?

They can't suspend him, for what? Having a different opinion about a neck injury? Or are you referring to when he comes back. First off, he can nurse the neck recovery thing for a good length of time, even if he is good to go. If Nikita Kucherov can do it so can Jack Eichel. Second, he has made good bank already, do you really think he would care if they suspend him? Do you not think the NHLPA would not file a grievance against the team for having that much time to get a deal done and not getting one? The Sabres can bs all they want but Eichel has the leverage here, the longer term hey wait the worse the return is going to be.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

How about Buffalo sue Eichel for breach of contract and it cost him every cent he's earned, and every cent he could potentially earn? No way do the Sabres allow a player that is their most valuable asset to skate on the terms of his contract. Eichel would then be starting a war with the Sabres, and as a result of the potential for this to be come a bigger issue, every franchise in the NHL.

This could blossom into something much much larger. Right now the NHLPA is clearly staying on the sidelines as this could threaten the NHL teams from having to be concerned about player health or safety and then not have any responsibility in providing insurance for the players. If you're telling the team to go #### themselves in regards to managing player health, the natural progression is to pass that responsibility off to the players all together, along with associated costs. That is a massive CBA issue, and could put the CBA at risk. This is no small issue.



Why would Buffalo void the contract? They only hurt themselves.



Again, why would Buffalo do this? They are better off waiting it out and putting the squeeze on Eichel. Suspend him, save the money, and wait for him to crack. It's not like the Sabres are any good with him in the line up. What's their loss?

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Zary/Pelletier, 2022 1st, 2023 1st

I would make the deal if that was the squeeze. Unfortunately we do have to move some salary in the deal. I'm not sure how much Buffalo bites on that based on what they are saying. I think that the toxicity of the current situation may help and lessen Buffalo's ask, but not that much. I would be open to Pelletier, Valimaki, the Flames choice of an unprotected 2022 1st,/2023 1st, and finally a 2024 1st, I could get behind that. That would leave the Flames the opportunity to make another deal or two and recoup the assets lost. I know Monahan has a target on his back right now, but I would move Tkachuk and Kylington to St. Louis for Parayko, Kyrou, Neighbors and a 2nd in 2022.

Gaudreau-Eichel-Lindholm
Mangiapane-Monahan-Kyrou
Dube-Backlund-Coleman
Lucic-Lewis-Pitlick
Ritchie

Hanifin-Tanev
Zadorov-Andersson
Mackey-Parayko
Stone

Markstrom
Darth Vader

That would leave us Zary, Coronato, and Neighbors in the pipeline up front, Kuznetsov, Poirier, and Whynot on the blueline, and then Wolf in goal as out prospect base. Thin, but not terrible considering the team on the ice on the big club.

Worth the squeeze? Don't know, but would be an interesting club to watch.

Ridiculous. Why in the hell would you move Tkachuk for that deal while holding onto a broken Sean Monahan? You keep Tkachuk.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Zary/Pelletier, 2022 1st, 2023 1st

I would make the deal if that was the squeeze. Unfortunately we do have to move some salary in the deal. I'm not sure how much Buffalo bites on that based on what they are saying. I think that the toxicity of the current situation may help and lessen Buffalo's ask, but not that much. I would be open to Pelletier, Valimaki, the Flames choice of an unprotected 2022 1st,/2023 1st, and finally a 2024 1st, I could get behind that. That would leave the Flames the opportunity to make another deal or two and recoup the assets lost. I know Monahan has a target on his back right now, but I would move Tkachuk and Kylington to St. Louis for Parayko, Kyrou, Neighbors and a 2nd in 2022.

Gaudreau-Eichel-Lindholm
Mangiapane-Monahan-Kyrou
Dube-Backlund-Coleman
Lucic-Lewis-Pitlick
Ritchie

Hanifin-Tanev
Zadorov-Andersson
Mackey-Parayko
Stone

Markstrom
Darth Vader

That would leave us Zary, Coronato, and Neighbors in the pipeline up front, Kuznetsov, Poirier, and Whynot on the blueline, and then Wolf in goal as out prospect base. Thin, but not terrible considering the team on the ice on the big club.

Worth the squeeze? Don't know, but would be an interesting club to watch.

Appreciate the time put in to this but if there are any problems with Echeil rehab or signing Jonny or Chucky we are basically gifting top 5 draft picks away next year and the year after.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That’s not how damages for breach of contract works.

Do tell counsellor. Are you suggesting the Sabres would not be able to sue Eichel for breach of contract and then be eligible for compensatory damages? You're suggesting the Sabres could not argue that Eichel has done damage to them and their reputation to the point where is negatively impacts their revenue stream? I think this is exactly what the Sabres would do and use the weight of them being a $100M gate drive business to crush Eichel. Five years of potential losses. That's a big number that could eat up every cent Eichel has already earned, and then into what he earns in the future. Is that an incorrect interpretation of compensatory damages as a result of breach of contract? If it is please explain what the options are.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Appreciate the time put in to this but if there are any problems with Echeil rehab or signing Jonny or Chucky we are basically gifting top 5 draft picks away next year and the year after.

If we get Eichel, that is the result if he has neck problems…. Regardless of who we move

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

If we get Eichel, that is the result if he has neck problems…. Regardless of who we move

So why in earth would you center the deal around unprotected firsts?

If you can’t horse trade players for picks around the league and come up from a package and players from that great. If not then you walk away.

It’s why this deal hasn’t happened yet.
Teams are dumb just not that dumb.

I’m legitimately excited for the next two drafts.
Swing at the fence in a swap of players but if not it’s Conor Bedard cheer team.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Appreciate the time put in to this but if there are any problems with Echeil rehab or signing Jonny or Chucky we are basically gifting top 5 draft picks away next year and the year after.

he traded Tkachuk away in that proposal to a team reported to have interest; also i think if Eichel is brought in Johnny easily extends he wants to win and he’d have a top American Center to play with. I think the tough season last year really has warped expectations of this team in an unfair way. A healthy Markstrom, Sutter for a full season, reinvention of the bottom 6 and adding a winner like Coleman it’s very debatable this club is in danger of ‘gifting’ a top 5 lotto pick.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Yoho

So why in earth would you center the deal around unprotected firsts?

All that is talked about here is going for it, this is what going for it looks like. No chance Buffalo is going to accept lottery protected picks from anyone…

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by devo22

I don't see how moving a package with Monahan, Dube and futures erodes our depth.

Gaudreau - Eichel - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Lindholm - Coleman
Lucic - Backlund - Pitlick
Lewis - Gawdin/Ruzicka - Ritchie

Hanifin - Tanev
Zadorov - Andersson
Valimaki - Mackey/Kylington/Welinski

Markstrom - Vladar

we'd also still have cap space to add another defenseman. Looks decent to me.

The top 6 is great, but I don't like the bottom 6. I would prefer something like:

Pelletier - Backlund - Pitlick
Lucic - Lewis - Ritchie

but the bottom line is that, if we give up 2 roster players (in this case, Monahan and Dube), there is going to be a newb in the lineup. IMO, Pelletier is a better player than Ruzicka, but of course, that is what pre-season is for.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

he traded Tkachuk away in that proposal to a team reported to have interest; also i think if Eichel is brought in Johnny easily extends he wants to win and he’d have a top American Center to play with. I think the tough season last year really has warped expectations of this team in an unfair way. A healthy Markstrom, Sutter for a full season, reinvention of the bottom 6 and adding a winner like Coleman it’s very debatable this club is in danger of ‘gifting’ a top 5 lotto pick.

You must have missed last season.

[dammage79]

Really want this Eichel situation resolved. So we can move one, because if the Flames don't get him they still have more work to do regardless. Just break the darn logjam.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

All that is talked about here is going for it, this is what going for it looks like. No chance Buffalo is going to accept lottery protected picks from anyone…

With the the changes to the lotto, that risk isn't here as much as it used to be. Teams just on the outside can no longer win the 1st or 2nd pick. Sure a team can move up to 10 spots, but that is a far cry of just missing the playoffs and your pick becomes the 1st or 2nd overall. A lot would have to go wrong for either Vegas of the Flames pick end up being the 1st.

[BarDown]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Do tell counsellor. Are you suggesting the Sabres would not be able to sue Eichel for breach of contract and then be eligible for compensatory damages? You're suggesting the Sabres could not argue that Eichel has done damage to them and their reputation to the point where is negatively impacts their revenue stream? I think this is exactly what the Sabres would do and use the weight of them being a $100M gate drive business to crush Eichel. Five years of potential losses. That's a big number that could eat up every cent Eichel has already earned, and then into what he earns in the future. Is that an incorrect interpretation of compensatory damages as a result of breach of contract? If it is please explain what the options are.

Not so sure about this. I would think that disputes between the Sabres and Eichel would be governed by the CBA, and subject to its dispute resolution mechanisms (binding arbitration). I'm certainly not a NHL CBA expert, but it may preclude the Sabres from filing a civil action for an alleged breach since Standard Player Contracts are incorporated into CBA.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think Wolf does anything at all to help Buffalo with their goaltending depth this year. He has played a grand total of three professional games, and none in the NHL. If the Sabres want to shore up goaltending right away they are more likely to want Vlader or Werner.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Yeah I meant more long term for them. They haven't had good goaltending forever.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

They can't suspend him, for what? Having a different opinion about a neck injury? Or are you referring to when he comes back. First off, he can nurse the neck recovery thing for a good length of time, even if he is good to go. If Nikita Kucherov can do it so can Jack Eichel. Second, he has made good bank already, do you really think he would care if they suspend him? Do you not think the NHLPA would not file a grievance against the team for having that much time to get a deal done and not getting one? The Sabres can bs all they want but Eichel has the leverage here, the longer term hey wait the worse the return is going to be.

Refusal to play? The team doctors just have to say he's cleared to resume play. At that point it's on Eichel and he has said he will not play. Suspended. Done. It's not like they are going to damage the relationship any further. They are no in the mode where they are trying to keep themselves whole, and thanks for your efforts Jack Eichel. He doesn't have a leg to stand on.

As I stated above, the NHLPA would be best to stay away from this argument. This is a player health and player contract thing, all outlined in the CBA. This could end poorly for the NHLPA if they want to push this issue.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Ridiculous. Why in the hell would you move Tkachuk for that deal while holding onto a broken Sean Monahan? You keep Tkachuk.

Because of likely $3M a season you need to maintain the cap, and you get better assets for Tkachuk. Plus, that team is better? If you're giving away all of these first round assets, you better make sure you set yourself to find others elsewhere, like through trades. With the roster you're building, we'll turn into the Edmonton Oilers south.

Using you're own ridiculous logic, why trade all of those assets for a broken Jack Eichel? Why go down that road at all?

[cam_wmh]

With him being LTIR, for potentially more than half the season.. I fear more teams are in the market.