[Trade] Seattle trades Pitlick to the Flames for a 2022 4th round pick

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

*SIGH* Not this again.

Backlund is not by any measure a 2/3 C "tweener," and did not really show any signs of "trending down" this year.

He's a solid, above average second-line centre, and has been so for some time now.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

So Backlund should be playing 2C for the Flames?

Because if that's your opinion, then I've just about lost faith in this fan base as well. Because then what's your problem with this team? Should be making the playoffs regularly/competing well in them.

Some posters on this board confuse me. They're down to fire Treliving and say that their opinions on players are so much different than Management yet say stuff like Backlund is an above average 2nd line C. John Tavares is an above average 2nd line C. Evgeni Malkin is an above average 2nd line C. I could go on and on. Backlund is not like those guys.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

So Backlund should be playing 2C for the Flames?

Because if that's your opinion, then I've just about lost faith in this fan base as well. Because then what's your problem with this team? Should be making the playoffs regularly/competing well in them.

Some posters on this board confuse me. They're down to fire Treliving and say that their opinions on players are so much different than Management yet say stuff like Backlund is an above average 2nd line C. John Tavares is an above average 2nd line C. Evgeni Malkin is an above average 2nd line C. I could go on and on. Backlund is not like those guys.

Those guys are 1Cs playing on a team with a better 1C.

ETA: Purely on points, which isn't even Backlund's main asset, he's in the 34th place among centres last year. Given there were 31 teams, he'd be a high ranking 2C. Not to mention, among those 33 Cs ahead of him, many don't play C all the time (Draisaitl, Hertl, Strome, Trocheck. Now TBF, he beat some guys due to injury (Malkin, Eichel) but not that many actually.

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by Itse

Personally I'm kinda beyond the point where I give a #### about the discussion or individual moves like this. Which is why I mostly don't participate, but let's face it;

There's a LOT of people beyond the point of giving a #### about the discussion, and I guess that probably does bring the site down.

But I think when people don't even care enough to make snide remarks, they're probably done as fans.

(Personally I'm pretty close to getting there.)

I feel for you and this team has made me very upset at times (fan since the move to Calgary) but then why come to this site at all...if the only reason someone comes here is to crap on every post then it ruins it for everyone else.

Not saying we all have to agree but it does get to be too much.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

United's argument was also simplistic, considering it suggests the Flames reduced the value of their 1st round pick last year when in reality they picked the exact same player they were intending to grab with the higher pick. Zary doesn't have less value at 24 than he did at 19.

I can't recall a team ever trading down in the first round and then saying afterwards "aw crap, the guy we wanted was picked, we could have got him but we traded the pick and now are stuck with this guy". Not saying the Flames did not like Zary but if they liked someone else and missed out on that player because they traded down, they would never publicly say it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I can't recall a team ever trading down in the first round and then saying afterwards "aw crap, the guy we wanted was picked, we could have got him but we traded the pick and now are stuck with this guy". Not saying the Flames did not like Zary but if they liked someone else and missed out on that player because they traded down, they would never publicly say it.

I think part of the discussion in moving down is a conversation about what player the team trading up is going to take.

So I don't think it's a complete crapshoot that creates the need to spin it post draft.

I think 2016 was an example in the reverse way. Calgary looking to move up to take Tkachuk and then connected the dots that they didn't have to.

I'd guess the Caps and Rangers had made it known, and with a few players left on their list Calgary felt safe to move down.

Now did they want Zary as player one on their list? That could be spun. Maybe their favourite was Holloway which created the movement into the rest of their list and moving down.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

The problem for me is the amount of reaction and analysis that goes into a move like this, and usually on the negative side. Truth is, a move like this one isn’t worth analyzing individually or in a vacuum, good or bad it’s a “sum of total parts or actions move”. Which is hard for people because we are impatient and can’t really see what else is coming. But these more minor moves, need to be all added up at the end of the off-season and evaluated on a whole to decide good or bad, not knee jerked too as they come in individually.

Don’t get me wrong, a more major deal (like say the Hamilton to Canes deal a few years back) big enough to evaluate in real time, but it’s hard to sift through the drastic sense of negativity on the smaller deals until we see the full picture.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

*SIGH* Not this again.

Backlund is not by any measure a 2/3 C "tweener," and did not really show any signs of "trending down" this year.

He's a solid, above average second-line centre, and has been so for some time now.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Above average 2nd line centre?

I can get behind the idea he is a legit 2nd line C but to say he is above average in that role is a bit of a stretch.

I think if a team was to be a legit cup favorite Backlund would be their 3rd line C.

I don't think it's an insult to classify him as a middle 6 C..

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think part of the discussion in moving down is a conversation about what player the team trading up is going to take.

So I don't think it's a complete crapshoot that creates the need to spin it post draft.

I think 2016 was an example in the reverse way. Calgary looking to move up to take Tkachuk and then connected the dots that they didn't have to.

I'd guess the Caps and Rangers had made it known, and with a few players left on their list Calgary felt safe to move down.

Now did they want Zary as player one on their list? That could be spun. Maybe their favourite was Holloway which created the movement into the rest of their list and moving down.

That is probably correct. I suspect they had 3 players that were relatively close and all were available at 19 so they moved down and maybe all 3 or 2 or 1 of them was available at 22 and they moved down again. I have no problem with either the Zary pick or moving down 5 spots in two trades to pick up more draft equity. I was just saying that teams always say they got the guy they wanted.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

... Someone explain to me why you couldn't get a comparable player for free off waivers or in free agency for around league min?



I guess he's kind of good at defence and otherwise a nothing player?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Above average 2nd line centre?

I can get behind the idea he is a legit 2nd line C but to say he is above average in that role is a bit of a stretch.

I think if a team was to be a legit cup favorite Backlund would be their 3rd line C.

I don't think it's an insult to classify him as a middle 6 C..

Now I actually don’t think Backlund is AS BAD as the advanced stats suggest

But I think it’s an incredibly dumb argument to call a guy a good 2C just because a non playoff team sometimes uses him as such with poor results

If you want to win anything in this league then Backlund is your 3C and you’d want to have him at a lower AAV. 5.35 into his 30’s is steep for what he brings

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

... Someone explain to me why you couldn't get a comparable player for free off waivers or in free agency for around league min?


I guess he's kind of good at defence and otherwise a nothing player?

This is the real question and it doesn't seem to get talked about.

But we can go on and on for pages about a fricken 4th round pick and deep analysis on net draft picks.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by neo45

Now I actually don’t think Backlund is AS BAD as the advanced stats suggest

But I think it’s an incredibly dumb argument to call a guy a good 2C just because a non playoff team sometimes uses him as such with poor results

If you want to win anything in this league then Backlund is your 3C and you’d want to have him at a lower AAV. 5.35 into his 30’s is steep for what he brings

Yup. Lucic is the worst contract on this team. Backlund is quickly catching up to be in the same realm....possibly as early as this time next year.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

... Someone explain to me why you couldn't get a comparable player for free off waivers or in free agency for around league min?



I guess he's kind of good at defence and otherwise a nothing player?

He’s also notoriously injury prone

[TheIronMaiden]

Backlund was a 2C, Backlund is a 3C, Backlunds contract was good, now it is bad.



All things change.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by neo45

Now I actually don’t think Backlund is AS BAD as the advanced stats suggest

But I think it’s an incredibly dumb argument to call a guy a good 2C just because a non playoff team sometimes uses him as such with poor results

If you want to win anything in this league then Backlund is your 3C and you’d want to have him at a lower AAV. 5.35 into his 30’s is steep for what he brings

I sure don't get this chart. He's above average in all but 3 categories, and above his total mark in all but one. and it ranks his even strength offence at 60% but ES Defence (his strength) at 27%. This is a guy who gets Selke votes.

[Erick Estrada]

Not going to lose sleep over a 4th round pick but I question Flames pro scouting as they have been poor in identifying role players going back to Brouwer. Seems like the Flames are trying to build a roster of muckers for Darryl. Not sure that's going to lead to a lot of success as the team lacks scoring talent.

[Ashasx]

Backlund has 3 years remaining. There's a not a ton left there. I have a hard time comprehending how anyone can compare it to Lucic.

[joejoe3]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Backlund was a 2C, Backlund is a 3C, Backlunds contract was good, now it is bad.



All things change.

When he was on the 3M line, oh those were the days.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

That is probably correct. I suspect they had 3 players that were relatively close and all were available at 19 so they moved down and maybe all 3 or 2 or 1 of them was available at 22 and they moved down again. I have no problem with either the Zary pick or moving down 5 spots in two trades to pick up more draft equity. I was just saying that teams always say they got the guy they wanted.

You are right that they always say that, and that they would never say they had to settle on someone.

However, I think it was pretty widely discussed beforehand that Zary was their interest, or at least one of the players that they were interested in.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by joejoe3

When he was on the 3M line, oh those were the days.

The Flames had a really strong team for a point in time, but they could never convert. It looks like they are going to follow the Minnesota Wild trajectory.