[Trade] Seattle trades Pitlick to the Flames for a 2022 4th round pick

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Armia

Yes, Armia is who I’d target. Size, speed, and can play in the middle six and kill penalties.

[Strange Brew]

The mood of the fanbase is what it is. Unless you think CP attracts overly negative people, maybe it has more to do with the team’s performance. Pretty much like a radio call in show, things can change quickly.

Hell a year ago a meaningful percentage of CP voted for Treliving as the greatest GM in franchise history.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

The mood of the fanbase is what it is. Unless you think CP attracts overly negative people, maybe it has more to do with the team’s performance. Pretty much like a radio call in show, things can change quickly.

Hell a year ago a meaningful percentage of CP voted for Treliving as the greatest GM in franchise history.

I'm happy to have any conversation about the fact that this team doesn't appear to be going anywhere. They need to change the core. They shouldn't expend assets to keep the group together.

But do we have to lose our minds about a fourth round pick? Do we have to call a guy with decent defensive numbers a replacement player or a plug in order to keep the hostility rolling?

But yeah ... things aren't great in Flamesville, no point in sugar coating it.

This is the word of Bongo.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So the poll gives people permission to over-react to every move made and not made?

Actual discussion and debate is great. The constant snide remarks, "clever" jokes and outrage is what some are tiring of.

I actually voted for dismissal in the poll, just based on results. But I do dislike the overreactions, the lazy and disingenuous arguments and the smart-ass cliche stuff like “in on everything” “smartest guy in the room” “process” stuff. Just discuss the pros and cons of a move. No need to bring up a trade from 4 years ago.

[Enoch Root]

I think Bongo is a keeper!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Again, you are ignoring the next 2 drafts where the Flames have a surplus of picks from trades that have already happened.

United's post looks further back, where yes, the Flames had a deficit of picks.

Bongo's point is that, more recently (i.e. the last 3 years), Treliving has not been trading at a deficit, and has actually been trading at a surplus (including value, not just numbers).

You keep arguing that the last few drafts have seen a deficit in picks. Yes, that is true and no one is disputing it, but you are missing the point because you are ignoring the surplus of picks that have yet to be realized but none the less exist.

It’s almost like teams go through cycles of spending and accumulating picks.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I actually voted for dismissal in the poll, just based on results. But I do dislike the overreactions, the lazy and disingenuous arguments and the smart-ass cliche stuff like “in on everything” “smartest guy in the room” “process” stuff. Just discuss the pros and cons of a move. No need to bring up a trade from 4 years ago.

You may disagree but this reflects how people who are really sour on Treliving think about him as a GM. Married to process, lacks a clear plan so tries to get in on everything etc.

If you like a move, tell us why instead of complaining about the naysayers. Isn’t it all just a vicious circle?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm happy to have any conversation about the fact that this team doesn't appear to be going anywhere. They need to change the core. They shouldn't expend assets to keep the group together.

But do we have to lose our minds about a fourth round pick? Do we have to call a guy with decent defensive numbers a replacement player or a plug in order to keep the hostility rolling?

But yeah ... things aren't great in Flamesville, no point in sugar coating it.

This is the word of Bongo.

Just need a Bango and we could have some fun on the course.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You may disagree but this reflects how people who are really sour on Treliving think about him as a GM. Married to process, lacks a clear plan so tries to get in on everything etc.

If you like a move, tell us why instead of complaining about the naysayers. Isn’t it all just a vicious circle?

You keep saying this, and I get that complaining about the complainers is annoying.

However, I think you are missing the mark. To use your phrase 'a vicious circle', yes it is, except for one fact: one of them comes first. The constant whining with the same old garbage cliches is the genesis of it all. People aren't going to complain about the whining if there isn't any whining.

Being pissed and frustrated with the team is understandable. But let's keep the conversations about the topics. Pitlick isn't a bad trade because Treliving traded a pick 6 years ago - it is either a good trade or a bad trade, today, based on the team today. Reading 20 comments sarcastically quoting 'process' is not discussion.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Again, you are ignoring the next 2 drafts where the Flames have a surplus of picks from trades that have already happened.

United's post looks further back, where yes, the Flames had a deficit of picks.

Bongo's point is that, more recently (i.e. the last 3 years), Treliving has not been trading at a deficit, and has actually been trading at a surplus (including value, not just numbers).

You keep arguing that the last few drafts have seen a deficit in picks. Yes, that is true and no one is disputing it, but you are missing the point because you are ignoring the surplus of picks that have yet to be realized but none the less exist.

No, you cannot look into drafts that have not happened yet. But even if you do that is a false narrative

2021- 7 picks
2022- 7 picks
2023- 7 picks

There is no surplus. Only truth is after the Flames #### the bed, Treliving did recover some picks but he is starting to trade them away. Who knows if he is net positive by the draft.

Fundamentally, Treliving likes to spend picks….not sure why that’s even a question

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

No, you cannot look into drafts that have not happened yet. But even if you do that is a false narrative

2021- 7 picks
2022- 7 picks
2023- 7 picks

There is no surplus. Only truth is after the Flames #### the bed, Treliving did recover some picks but he is starting to trade them away. Who knows if he is net positive by the draft.

Fundamentally, Treliving likes to spend picks….not sure why that’s even a question

Last three calendar years he's added three more assets then he's spent.

That's the argument.

The team is no longer bleeding picks as some suggested. They don't do it every year as some suggested.

And he's added more 2nds and 3rds, and subtracted 4th upgrading the asset value.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

United already utterly destroyed your argument, so I won't pile on.

United's argument was also simplistic, considering it suggests the Flames reduced the value of their 1st round pick last year when in reality they picked the exact same player they were intending to grab with the higher pick. Zary doesn't have less value at 24 than he did at 19.

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

No, you cannot look into drafts that have not happened yet. But even if you do that is a false narrative

2021- 7 picks
2022- 7 picks
2023- 7 picks

There is no surplus. Only truth is after the Flames #### the bed, Treliving did recover some picks but he is starting to trade them away. Who knows if he is net positive by the draft.

Fundamentally, Treliving likes to spend picks….not sure why that’s even a question

I don't know if using phrases like "the only truth" and "false narrative" bolster an argument that completely misses the actions of a GM, which is what is being discussed.

"Treliving likes to spend picks." Ok, let's say we agree. Then we also must agree that Treliving likes to acquire picks. And, if we're looking at the last three years, we also must agree that he has liked acquiring higher picks and spending lower picks while keeping a balance in the number of picks. Overall, a good thing, no?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You may disagree but this reflects how people who are really sour on Treliving think about him as a GM. Married to process, lacks a clear plan so tries to get in on everything etc.

If you like a move, tell us why instead of complaining about the naysayers. Isn’t it all just a vicious circle?

No. There's a starting point, being the OT complaints. And I do talk about the actual moves - all the time.

[Doc Hudson]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yes, Armia is who I’d target. Size, speed, and can play in the middle six and kill penalties.

This is the only name that really interests me on that list.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Last three calendar years he's added three more assets then he's spent.

That's the argument.

The team is no longer bleeding picks as some suggested. They don't do it every year as some suggested.

And he's added more 2nds and 3rds, and subtracted 4th upgrading the asset value.

Yeah he is caught up. There is no surplus

But he will have to spend picks again to upgrade the team. How else is he going to do it. We do not have that many attractive prospects outside of our core.

Anyway, it’s the least of Treliving’s problem

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You don't find there's a negative pissy contingent on the site these days that is looking to be upset with literally everything that has, or could happen?

The team sucks, has sucked for a long time outside of a couple of bright spots, and there's no reason to think something is about to change.

It's not like you have to go looking for reasons to be upset with the way this team is managed.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Itse

The team sucks, has sucked for a long time outside of a couple of bright spots, and there's no reason to think something is about to change.

It's not like you have to go looking for reasons to be upset with the way this team is managed.

Why keep following something that doesn't bring you any joy or positivity?

Seems incredibly sad to me. People should find a hobby they actually like.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Itse

The team sucks, has sucked for a long time outside of a couple of bright spots, and there's no reason to think something is about to change.

It's not like you have to go looking for reasons to be upset with the way this team is managed.

True. Yet people still do go looking for reasons to be upset. Again (how many times does this need to be said?), no one is saying everyone has to be happy about the state of affairs. All we are saying, is give each transaction a chance - evaluate it on its own merit, discuss it like an adult.

[Itse]

Personally I'm kinda beyond the point where I give a #### about the discussion or individual moves like this. Which is why I mostly don't participate, but let's face it;

There's a LOT of people beyond the point of giving a #### about the discussion, and I guess that probably does bring the site down.

But I think when people don't even care enough to make snide remarks, they're probably done as fans.

(Personally I'm pretty close to getting there.)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Itse

The team sucks, has sucked for a long time outside of a couple of bright spots, and there's no reason to think something is about to change.

It's not like you have to go looking for reasons to be upset with the way this team is managed.

You're sort of making my point.

There are plenty of things broken and not going right to discuss if that's where you live.

People ARE looking for reasons to be upset on top of the valid concerns.