[Trade] Seattle trades Pitlick to the Flames for a 2022 4th round pick

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am going to guess that Pitlick ends up playing RW next to Backlund, freeing-up Mangiapane to play a bit higher up the lineup. Pitlick is a RHS RW, no? Not a centre.


The bonus here is that it creates an additional hurdle for Ritchie to have to jump over in order to get top-line minutes.

[camm13]

He's a centre, thats mostly played RW

[Roof-Daddy]

Lots of time for changes, but as of now:

Gaudreau - Lindholm - XXXXX
Tkachuk - Monahan - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Lucic - XXXXX - Ritchie

That's how I see it ATM

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by neo45

So is it fair to say Treliving has in fact ran a draft pick deficit in terms of both quality and quantity and used that deficit to build a non-playoff roster?

I think it’s completely fair to question every time he moves a draft pick out for a depth piece considering how bad his track record is for those types of moves.

I think it's fair to say he ran a quality and quantity deficit in the first 3 years, which did indeed contribute to creating a sporadic playoff roster, and a quality surplus in the last 4... which has not yet moved further in that direction.

You can question whatever you like.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Lots of time for changes, but as of now:

Gaudreau - Lindholm - XXXXX
Tkachuk - Monahan - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Lucic - XXXXX - Ritchie

That's how I see it ATM

That's not bad, but I am not sure Treliving will be able to find a RW'er. I do think the biggest need will be on defence, and that's where the cap space will probably get used up.


Gaudreau - Linholm - Tkachuk
Dube - Monahan - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Pitlick
XXX - XXXXXX - Ritchie


I have to figure one of Pelletier, Gawdin, Ruzicka or Phillips makes it, plus some PTOs (hopefully better than last year).

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by camm13

He's a centre, thats mostly played RW

For his whole career in the NHL so far? I think we can safely call him a RW, no?

[united]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Does it though?

Going backwards in time.

Added picks with Bennett trade + pick + prospect
Added picks with Rittich trade + pick
Added picks with Washington draft trade + pick
Added picks with Rangers draft trade + pick
Lost picks in Gustafsson trade - pick
Lost picks in Forbort trade - pick
Added picks in Frolik trade + pick
Added picks in Neal trade + pick
Lost picks in Fantenburg trade - pick

That takes us back to the beginning of the 2018-19 season or three years.

+ 6 picks
- 3 picks (4 with today)
+ prospect

Net assets +4

This is a poor way of analyzing things because it presumes all draft picks hold equal value. By this methodology, trading the 1st overall pick for the 200th overall pick would be breakeven. Conducting the analysis with a draft pick value measure is the appropriate method.

Using the draft value chart published by The Athletic in 2020, here is what I quickly got using draft capital only:

2022 draft
In: 2nd (FLA - TBD), 3rd (TML - TBD)
Out: 4th (CGY - TBD), 6th (CGY - TBD)
Value: Estimated +2 wins

2021 draft
In: 84
Out: 109
Value: +0.3 wins

2020 draft
In: 22, 24, 72, 80, 96
Out: 19, 22, 81, 112
Value: +0.3 wins

2019 draft
In: 116, 214
Out: 57, 119, 181, 212
Value: -1.5 wins

2018 draft
In: 108, 122
Out: 12, 43, 74, 136
Value: -7.8 wins

2017 draft
In: ...
Out: 47, 78
Value: -2.4 wins

2016 draft
In: 54, 56, 166
Out: 35
Value: +0.5 wins

2015 draft
In: 52, 53, 60, 83
Out: 15, 45, 52, 76, 83
Value: -4.9 wins

Total: -15.5 wins
2018-2020: -9.0 wins

- Since Treliving took charge, the Flames have a net deficit of a poor 1st-/great 2nd-overall pick .
- Over the past three completed drafts, the Flames have a net deficit of a 4th-overall pick.
- Considering the playoffs success the team has achieved, that is depressing.

Any contention the Flames are net positive or breakeven is disingenuous or naive, especially when considering the team's performance over that time.

[Savvy27]

Dube is kind of the biggest question in my mind. Is he ready to play as a top 6 forward in the league? It may not be necessary to go out and sign one in free agency, or at least the value the Flames get out of a UFA may not be worth the difference between him and a mid range UFA. Or maybe he is a trade chip.

Pitlick seems like a prime candidate to take over that spot on the 3rd line RW with Lucic and Backlund and I don't think Dube is going down the line up. On the other hand it was a tough year for him and he was called out by Sutter as needing to improve.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by united

This is a poor way of analyzing things because it presumes all draft picks hold equal value. By this methodology, trading the 1st overall pick for the 200th overall pick would be breakeven. Conducting the analysis with a draft pick value measure is the appropriate method.

Using the draft value chart published by The Athletic in 2020, here is what I quickly got using draft capital only:

2022 draft
In: 2nd (FLA - TBD), 3rd (TML - TBD)
Out: 4th (CGY - TBD), 6th (CGY - TBD)
Value: Estimated +2 wins

2021 draft
In: 84
Out: 109
Value: +0.3 wins

2020 draft
In: 22, 24, 72, 80, 96
Out: 19, 22, 81, 112
Value: +0.3 wins

2019 draft
In: 116, 214
Out: 57, 119, 181, 212
Value: -1.5 wins

2018 draft
In: 108, 122
Out: 12, 43, 74, 136
Value: -7.8 wins

2017 draft
In: ...
Out: 47, 78
Value: -2.4 wins

2016 draft
In: 54, 56, 166
Out: 35
Value: +0.5 wins

2015 draft
In: 52, 53, 60, 83
Out: 15, 45, 52, 76, 83
Value: -4.9 wins

Total: -15.5 wins
2018-2020: -9.0 wins

- Since Treliving took charge, the Flames have a net deficit of a poor 1st-/great 2nd-overall pick .
- Over the past three completed drafts, the Flames have a net deficit of a 4th-overall pick.
- Considering the playoffs success the team has achieved, that is depressing.

Any contention the Flames are net positive or breakeven is disingenuous or naive, especially when considering the team's performance over that time.

Now factor in the players he received, not just draft picks to see how he spent his "draft capital"?

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Gaudreau - Linholm - Tkachuk
Dube - Monahan - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Pitlick
XXX - XXXXXX - Ritchie


I have to figure one of Pelletier, Gawdin, Ruzicka or Phillips makes it, plus some PTOs (hopefully better than last year).

That's pretty much how I see it unfolding (presuming we don't land a big C or RW option for the top line replacing Tkachuk or Monahan). I presume that those 4th line spots at least partially are filled by last year's AHLers.

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Dube - Monahan - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Pitlick
UFA/PTO - Gawdin/Ruz - Ritchie

Then due to injuries during the year I presume we also see a fair bit of Pelletier, Phillips & Emilio Peterssen in the middle 6.

[djsFlames]

This fanbase needs and deserves an Eichel level acquisition.

Glad you got your periphery tinkering out of the way, Treliving. Now ffs, go get to work on this core.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

This fanbase needs and deserves an Eichel level acquisition.

Glad you got your periphery tinkering out of the way, Treliving. Now ffs, go get to work on this core.

I’m hoping the Game Day Draft Thread tomorrow is absolutely epic - for happy reasons. We need us one o’ them “we just acquired Dougie Hamilton” style trades to happen!

…I actually just went back and read that Hamilton acquisition thread. So much optimism.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Lots of time for changes, but as of now:

Gaudreau - Lindholm - XXXXX
Tkachuk - Monahan - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Lucic - XXXXX - Ritchie

That's how I see it ATM

That is exactly how I see it.

re-sign Ryan, and go get a quality RW for the top 6. And things are looking pretty good.

Calgary4Life: I agree that finding a good RW is/will be very challenging, but if possible, I think it is a better way to spend the cap dollars than an expensive Dman.

I think Andersson had an off year and will be better. I think Hanifin might also take a step forward. I expect Tanev to be as good as last year, or at least close. If those things are true, they really only need a #3/4 guy ($3-4M hopefully) to round out the top 4. I also think Valimaki takes a step forward, and he, Stone and Kyllington are more than adequate for the 5 to 7 roles.

[InternationalVillager]

Don't mind this Pitlick trade. But looking at the team, how is this organization going to sell many tickets this year?

Fan enthusiasm/apathy is at the lowest point in probably since 2012-2013. That's depressing.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Don't mind this Pitlick trade. But looking at the team, how is this organization going to sell many tickets this year?

Fan enthusiasm/apathy is at the lowest point in probably since 2012-2013. That's depressing.

Compounded by covid and companies struggling corporate tickets/boxes/etc likely see a dip. Will have to see how much it's countered by fans just excited to be able to go to the dome again.

And of course the obvious answer, season doesn't start tomorrow.

[djsFlames]

As for RWs, I wonder if Tarasenko could be had at (obviously) a price less than Tkachuk.

Seems like a guy with something to prove after his career team has nudged him towards the door. I think Gaudreau would do great with him.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

As for RWs, I wonder if Tarasenko could be had at (obviously) a price less than Tkachuk.

Seems like a guy with something to prove after his career team has nudged him towards the door. I think Gaudreau would do great with him.

You absolutely know St. Louis will want Tkachuk. The question is what else will St. Lo throw in to make it worth while? No way straight across will fly. Taresenko is just what we need, his doctor says he'll play, however he's 29, Chuckys 23.

BTW we haven't had a player that can shoot it like Tarasenko since Iggy left. The other question is will Tarasenko waive to come to Calgary? He wasn't taken and has a full NTC.

[Pellanor]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That chart is actually a massive indictment AGAINST acquiring extra picks.

Teams with the most: Buffalo, NJ, Edmonton, Detroit, Ottawa

Teams with the fewest: Pitt, Vegas, STL, Washington and Boston (TBL also below Calgary)

The chart isn't counting the total number of picks, it's the total value of picks. A 1st overall pick is worth more than a bunch of extra 3rd and 4th round picks. Bad teams are at the top because they've gotten the higher draft picks.

[Roof-Daddy]

I know this will get crapped on mostly, but...

Tkachuk for Tarasenko (retained), Kyrou, Neighbors

Extend Kyrou long term

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tarasenko
Mangiapane - Monahan - Kyrou
D. Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
M. Lucic - XXXXX - Ritchie

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Pellanor

The chart isn't counting the total number of picks, it's the total value of picks. A 1st overall pick is worth more than a bunch of extra 3rd and 4th round picks. Bad teams are at the top because they've gotten the higher draft picks.

the point is the same - higher value picks over the last 9 years (or whatever it was) have not resulted in good teams.