2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

I'm an older millennial, but I'm still a little too young to really remember the cup win, so Iggy scoring 50 and the 03-04 run are really the only real highs I've experienced as a flames fan.
It seems like it's been a lot of lows. But never really the lowest lows that could help the team turn around.
At this point, being a flames fan is more of a habit than a passion.

The Spring of Ferklund was pretty good too.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

What's frustrating is that the cap era levelled the playing field and we still can't get out of this 'average team 9/10 seasons with an occasional burst of greatness' rut.

The mediocrity was easy to understand when big teams could outspend the Flames and lure players away to more cosmopolitan cities.

IMO the problem with the Flames is they never want to admit when they are bad and that prevents them form making the hard choices. Other teams are ruthless with pending free agents and post apex players. Some teams are cynical enough to tank for a shot at great players.

Flames are not likely to change and neither will the results.

For me it's the ruthless part where the Flames fail. I think rebuilding or a retool is what this team needs but normally I fall in the category of someone who thinks tanking is an overrated way to build your team. This for me has been the trend ever since the 2012 lockout. Things have changed and teams who draft top 3 draft picks are turning around and winning the cup like they did starting in 2005 to 2012.

But for me the cap in the NHL is the toughest to manage and it's the hardest cap to fix mistakes. Because of this I believe moving forwards teams are going to struggle to be at the top for more than 5 years in a row. Maybe 1 or 2 teams every 5 years might defy the odds. So there will be ups and downs more so now and if you want to compete regularly you need to be realistic about your team and take advantage of down times to manage your assets. Flames had a down year and all we are complaining about is asset management.

Monahan - why wasn't he shut down earlier?
All other players who were hurt shut them down earlier
Trade a dman before we get to losing our captain for nothing

If this team moved Gio for a bad expiring contract and a pick and we were drafting top 8 right now it would have been a big plus for this franchise moving forward vs where we are at right now.

Ruthless teams probably move Backlund too. If we did and got an ok return maybe we could have taken advantage of some of these teams making trades before the expansion draft protect lists were due?

If the Flames just took advantage of the situation and be realistic on how good this team is they would be way better off.

Imagine having a few extra picks and $26mil in cap space right now. Sure we wouldn't have Gio and Backlund but it's looking like we are not going to have Gio anyways.

[Vinny01]

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagn...on-draft-looms


4th period mentions the jackets are shopping Laine and the Flames are a team that has expressed interest

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagn...on-draft-looms


4th period mentions the jackets are shopping Laine and the Flames are a team that has expressed interest

So he can be pegged to the bench due to ####ty work ethic?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Just jumping in, but I think that's one of my problems with the team; their goal is making the playoffs.

And I can get where they are coming from. We hear how making the playoffs is the difference between a financially successful season or not. There's the belief that once you're in, anything can happen (see Montreal). But then look at Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin), Chicago (Kane, Toews), Tampa (Stamkos, Hedman), Washington (Ovechkin). Those teams owe their success to going through the rebuild and finishing at the bottom.

And precisely none of them finished at the bottom deliberately. Pittsburgh did it because they were virtually bankrupt. Chicago was coming out of the last and worst years of ‘Dollar Bill’ Wirtz. Tampa had been gutted by meddling owners who ran out of money and had to sell. It isn't a thing any owner does by choice, and it's hardly legitimate to criticize a GM for not blowing up the business without permission.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagn...on-draft-looms


4th period mentions the jackets are shopping Laine and the Flames are a team that has expressed interest

A player with Laine's skillset would be fantastic to add, but he sure doesn't seem to fit in anywhere.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by memphusk

So he can be pegged to the bench due to ####ty work ethic?

Ya I am not a fan either and don’t think Sutter is the answer. I would part with Monahan but not much more which likely ends the conversation quickly

[klikitiklik]

I think we can at least all agree that we all want success for our Flames. I hope that Tre Knocks it out of the park and Jay and others like him can spit in my face and say "See??!!""

I read this site daily for the discourse bad or good, and I have to say, Negative as it has been, It's Juy 19th and this site is not slowing down. Good job fellas. Great comments!

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mattman

15th consistently is much different than a Chicago or Pittsburgh where you're 30th for a while then dominate the league for 10 years.

I think most people could settle for the highs with a cost of some lows.

Nobody was ‘30th for a while’. I can only think of one team that ever finished dead last three years in a row. Pittsburgh got Crosby by pure luck, and Chicago had a long stretch of futility before they got their #1 overall pick. Before 2010, their last Stanley Cup win was in 1961!

For that matter, the Flames over the period we're discussing finished as high as 2nd and as low as 27th, which is a far cry from ‘15th consistently’. You're setting up a battle between two straw men and cheering for the one whose straw is stuffed in less evenly.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Easily that series against the Ducks in 16-17 that ended in a Sweep because we got some of the worst goaltending ever.

Corsi For: 51.2%
xGF: 57.8%
Save Percentage: .886

High Danger Goals For: 8
High Danger Goals Against: 5

Medium Danger Goals For: 1
Medium Danger Goals Against: 1

Low Danger Goals For: 0
Low Danger Goals Against: 7!!!!

Flames were easily the better team in that series, but our goalies let in 7 low danger goals against. Still didn't score enough goals that series, but we were the better team and the team was just shellshocked by the goals against all series long.

Since then they got overrun by a Colorado team who seems to be able to run over teams in round 1, then loses in round 2. Beat the Jets in the play in round. And then were 10 seconds way from being up 3-1 on the Stars before losing that series in a typical Flames collapse.

I was going to post the same thing.

Calgary was the better team all series. Except goaltending was historically poor.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Very few people are reacting as dramatically as you are now arguing

Only the ones I'm arguing with, it appears. That not enough for you?

Most unbiased analysis puts them around the 5th worth franchise over that time

Quote some. I quoted mine, and it puts them 17th of 30 or 31 in the regular season. I put very little stock in first-round playoff records, because the element of chance is so large.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

And precisely none of them finished at the bottom deliberately. Pittsburgh did it because they were virtually bankrupt. Chicago was coming out of the last and worst years of ‘Dollar Bill’ Wirtz. Tampa had been gutted by meddling owners who ran out of money and had to sell. It isn't a thing any owner does by choice, and it's hardly legitimate to criticize a GM for not blowing up the business without permission.

There is no more or less honorable way to rebuild if you ask me. Every league in professional sports has teams choose to build through the draft, including (gasp) making decisions to purposely tear down the team.

As a fanbase sometimes it feels like we’ve gone so anti-oiler that winning a draft lottery, or maneuvering your window to give you a chance, is seen as a disgrace.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Only the ones I'm arguing with, it appears. That not enough for you?



Quote some. I quoted mine, and it puts them 17th of 30 or 31 in the regular season. I put very little stock in first-round playoff records, because the element of chance is so large.

Yeah, the "chances" winning a playoff series are very small if the team you've built is inferior.

If you actually build a proper contender, you not only have a better chance at winning playoff rounds, but you also get more chances to win playoff rounds.

The Flames have not built a proper contender and to make matters worse, they also have not had good luck in there few chances in the playoffs.

Example 1 - they had their goalie sink them against the Ducks a few years ago
Example 2 - they gave up a game tying goal in the final seconds and lost in OT to Dallas when they were on the verge of going up 3-1

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/pagn...on-draft-looms


4th period mentions the jackets are shopping Laine and the Flames are a team that has expressed interest

That’s not what it said. It said flames had interest in Laine before he was traded to Columbus. With what happened to him last year with Torts and Sutter now being coach of flames , doubt there is much interest .

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, the "chances" winning a playoff series are very small if the team you've built is inferior.

If you actually build a proper contender, you not only have a better chance at winning playoff rounds, but you also get more chances to win playoff rounds.

The Flames have not built a proper contender and to make matters worse, they also have not had good luck in there few chances in the playoffs.

Example 1 - they had their goalie sink them against the Ducks a few years ago
Example 2 - they gave up a game tying goal in the final seconds and lost in OT to Dallas when they were on the verge of going up 3-1

But when your examples of having bad luck only result in a first round win it’s not as tough to swallow

Vegas beat Colorado only to choke against Montreal is a tough pill to swallow

Great teams also win series they shouldn’t. Average teams dwell on that series we played good but got swept. I do agree we were very good that series but once again it was a first round loss and if that is the best we can do when it comes to a what if example then we aren’t very good

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

And precisely none of them finished at the bottom deliberately. Pittsburgh did it because they were virtually bankrupt. Chicago was coming out of the last and worst years of ‘Dollar Bill’ Wirtz. Tampa had been gutted by meddling owners who ran out of money and had to sell. It isn't a thing any owner does by choice, and it's hardly legitimate to criticize a GM for not blowing up the business without permission.

Yup.


People talk about Tampa "rebuilding" the right way, but let's remember that they had Lecavalier and St. Louis on their roster throughout the entire stretch where they got Stamkos, Hedman, and Drouin as top-3 picks. The season where they drafted Stamkos, they started the year with Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Richards making nearly 40% of the available cap between the 3 of them. That was not a team whose goal was to tank. They badly misjudged things coming out of the lockout and overpaid their top forwards, and they did so before people figured out the various ways to tweak contracts to reduce the cap hit.


As bad as Chicago and Pittsburgh were, they still needed lottery luck to build their championship teams. The Pens would have still been a solid team without Crosby, but he certainly put them over the top. If the Hawks don't win the lottery in 2007, they're likely drafting Gagner or Voracek at 5th overall. In 2006, Toews wasn't guaranteed to be there at 3, nor was he guaranteed to be Chicago's pick at 3. That year had a very strong top-end. Do they win 3 Cups with Voracek and Kessel instead of Kane and Toews?


The only team that has really had success with a dedicated sell-off and rebuild was the Capitals... and even then, it took 14 years before they finally won the Cup (although, they did get a couple of President's Trophies along the way and were a perennial playoff team).

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Only the ones I'm arguing with, it appears. That not enough for you?



Quote some. I quoted mine, and it puts them 17th of 30 or 31 in the regular season. I put very little stock in first-round playoff records, because the element of chance is so large.

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/past-...out-the-decade

Hockey news has us 21st over the last decade in Dec 2019 - Colorado, Winnipeg would easily have past us after last season. Carolina arguably. Same with Toronto. So going by hockey news after last season we would have ranked somewhere between 24/25. Very close to my bottom 5 statement (It's over past 10 years not 15, but it's not like the 5 years before that helped us out)


But you didn't acctually quote a ranking. You made up a non-sensical rating and then I guess quoted yourself. It wasn't even a algorithm or something that took multiple factors into play.

You literally have said playoff success means nothing to you, so you rank the Flames 17th based on their regular season play. And then said we are jinxed and that's the reason we haven't had playoff success.

It's nonsensical. There is nothing left to argue because you are now quoting yourself as a supporting argument for yourself and resorting to jinxes to defend the team.

You must realize how far this argument has gone off base for you...

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So the Flames have been missing the playoffs year after year? News to me. When I look at the standings, I see the only time they did that was just before and during the last rebuild, two management teams ago… but what do I know?



Here we go with the same stupid accusation that the negative loonies always level at anyone who finds anyone positive in a situation. ‘What are you, X's mom?’ ‘Who are you sleeping with?’ etc., etc. All you do when you resort to this is make yourself look petty and ignorant.



Only in your imagination does ‘I'm tired of people blaming Brad Treliving for things that never even happened’ somehow twist into ‘I'm defending the way the team has been run’. You are so damned negative that you can't accept any adjective but ‘worse’ or ‘worst’ applied to the Calgary Flames. That's your problem, not mine.



You'll have to spell that one out. Seven years ago, the Flames were coming off a 27th-place finish and had nothing to show for it but the 4th pick in an admittedly weak draft. Their leading scorer was Jiri freaking Hudler, a castoff from the Detroit organization. They had a few promising young players like Monahan and Gaudreau, but we all know now how those guys turned out and a lot of CP can't wait to run them out of town. What on earth did they have then that was better than now?



I have very little faith in the team or the people running it. I have no faith at all in the people who hate it and have to keep exaggerating and making up preposterous scenarios just so they can have more things to hate. I'm tired of it and I wish it would stop.

The real situation is bad enough. Screaming about how much worse you are certain Brad ‘World's Biggest Idiot’ Treliving is inevitably going to make it does nothing but make other people miserable.

I am seriously thinking of giving up being a hockey fan altogether, because the only way I have of talking with other fans is through places like this one, and the toxicity has grown beyond belief. The naysayers are not half as sick of the Flames as I am sick of the naysayers. And I see no hope of an improvement in that, no matter what the team does.

First off, take a breath son.

You're making up quotes, calling people names, and trying to spin your own narrative. I don't hate the Flames, at all. I'm not sure I really "hate" at all. I strongly dislike things and how people do things but I don't hate. I haven't called Treliving "the world's biggest idiot" and I'd defend him if someone did. Again, I don't agree with what hes doing but I'm sure he's a nice person. I asked you a simple question, just answer it. And stop pretending you know anyone on here, you can't have a conversation without flying off the handle and making ignorant accusations.

As for the hockey side of things: being first round fodder doesn't amount to anything so stop trying to act like just making the playoffs every other year is an accomplishment. 7 years ago they had promising young stars Monahan and Gaudreau and drafted Bennett, then they surrounded them with junk. Gave bad contracts, gave up valuable assets, and don't have enough to show for it. Now those young stars are on the decline, they have Tkachuk who now seems like he doesn't want to be here a d they'll have to give him an overpriced contract that walks him to free agency as quickly as possible. Their prospect pool is bad, their younger support players aren't good enough other than one or two and they've mismanaged assets for a few years.


We're not, or at least not all of us, making up preposterous situations. No one is certain of anything but it's OK to not have faith in management to turn around and make hard decisions to improve the team.

I don't mean this as an insult in any way but maybe you should take a break, maybe not from hockey all together but just from CP. It seems as if you can't have any kind of conversation without taking things personally.

You're calling everyone else negative yet end with "I see no hope of improvement no matter what the team does". You're coming off as one of the most negative people in here.

[kukkudo]

Can’t believe someone is defending the what the Flames have done the past 15 years or so. Someone posted that one stat weren’t the flames bottom 3 or something since 05-06 in terms of playoff success?

At the end of the day the goal is to win the cup. Well the flames goal should be get into the second round. But now the goal is make the playoffs. I believe Treliving is gonna go all out here because he knows he could be out of a job by Christmas if they come out slow out of the gate or they miss the playoffs.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But you didn't acctually quote a ranking. You made up a non-sensical rating and then I guess quoted yourself. It wasn't even a algorithm or something that took multiple factors into play.

Today I learned that the actual NHL standings are ‘a nonsensical rating’. OK, then.